Thinking of moving to Southwest DE? -- Don't! (Dover, Seaford: consignment, manor house)

[doctorjef]

Of course, if you're living in SW Sussex and working in Dover, that is a commute, even if perhaps a somewhat modest one.

RE: Talbot County -- one thing I like about it is that it's wonderfully historic and seems to emphasise that aspect.

[Pine to Vine]

Originally Posted by rdlr

In southwestern Sussex County, $225,000 and under can buy one a nice 3 bedroom, 2 bath new construction on a crawl space, with a 2 car garage.....even as low as $160,000, for a 1350 sf house with a 1 car garage. This is the market for the location. Not necessarily retirees are buying these, not necessarily commuters, but young families enjoying the area, and/or locals. Naturally, they must have a job to acquire the mortgage. The picture painted of people living in this area and not having jobs, is not 100% correct. We know many who choose to live in that area, work in Seaford, Laurel and Dover, and live modestly. As in every location, jobs are scarce, and that area has its share of unemployed, as elsewhere.

Or course there are people living quite well and enjoying their life in Western Sussex. That said, I don't feel it offers quite as much to families as it did 30 - 40 years ago. After my father finished a two year stint in the service, he landed a job at DuPont and he and my mother left their small town in Caroline County, MD and moved to Seaford. Like many couples in similar circumstances at that time, they felt they had arrived, because Seaford offered a lot to families.

Staring with education, I attended school with children not only from around the US, but with a handful of kids from other countries whose fathers were transferred by DuPont to work in Seford. The elementary school I attended had framed prints of European art lining the hallways, and we were taught by our art instructor to identify works of artists ranging from Gauguin to Klee to van Gogh. I was taught my first French greeting in 1st grade (Comment ca va? Ca va bein, merci!) and every student, regardless of background, started formal French instruction in 4th grade. The high school band would travel to competitions and win awards and the journalism class (taught by a woman who went on to become the Delaware Secretary of State) also won awards at state competitions for the school paper. It seemed everyone I attended school with went on to university (over 30 kids alone from my class attended UD), and we ended up being pretty well-prepared.

As for the town itself, whether it was true or not, we used to feel Seaford was as bit more special than the neighboring towns. There was a large shopping center and three chain grocery stores. The city used to sponsor 3 - 4 parades each year and DuPont paid for fireworks each July 4 which attracted onlookers from miles around. There was a Community Concert Association which sold tickets to a series of performances by fairly unknown yet talented traveling classical soloists and ensembles. And there was a country club, tennis courts and a public pool.

Toady, the shopping enter is largely empty and sitting there in rather seedy condition, replaced by big box businesses on Route 13. No more fireworks. After decades of operation, the country club couldn't sustain itself, and was purchased in the past couple of years by the city for use as a senior center. And the public pool has been filled in, because there were not enough discretionary funds in the town budget to maintain it.

It would be nice if the town could right itself. I am not counting it out. That said, I don't think it will return to the kind of town it once was. With the right hands on the rudder, however, it could become the kind of place where people who choose to make their life there will once again feel they have "arrived."

[brava4]

Interesting thread. I am interested in all areas outside of Wilmington, mainly south.

Great photos, too. Thanks for posting them.

[rdlr]

I remember those good days, jm, and I agree, it would take a lot to bring Seaford back to the old DuPont days. And, along with that period of decline, went the neighboring towns, Laurel, and Delmar (which were the step sisters anyway). Seaford was the hub/anchor of southwestern Sussex. Our days there went back to the 70's - 80's and the Delino DeShields baseball hype. We enjoyed going down to Seaford for ball games, and envied the talent developed there. Secretly, we didn't think our baseball teams were that bad, and we blamed all the Seaford talent on the DuPont kids!

I have seen sparks of improvement in southwestern Sussex, though. More subdivisions are cropping up, and Rt. 13 Seaford at least has a Walmart, Lowes, new strip centers, and business parks. I was surprised a Grotto Pizza located there! Heck, we don't even have that in Dover or Camden!

[Pine to Vine]

^^^ That's why I am I am not counting it out. The fact that it lost an employer of 4000 people(!) yet has still managed to grow, albeit slowly, says something. Cycles come and go. While it will never be what is once was, it might still become something no one could imagine today.

[DelawareLiz]

I believe quite a few people who live in western Sussex commute to Salisbury, Dover, or other areas even over the bridge for decent paying jobs. Some also work in the medical or criminal justice field. You definitely can get a lot more for your money out that way if you're buying a house. As stated before, my husband's entire family is from west Seaford and Blades, and all they know is living in that area. My husband is the ONLY one who left. They are all very poor for the most part, although a few still have some farmland. My in-laws live in a working class neighborhood that was quiet until around the 1990's, and then the drug dealers, prostitutes, halfway homes, and squatters took over.

Crime is horrible out that way. They just busted a huge drug dealing ring out by Trap Pond which is considered a safe and quiet area. My husband was so used to hearing state police choppers flying around his house growing up that he can now tell if one is flying around our area without even looking. He graduated from Seaford high in 1994 and he said that other kids flashed gang signs at each other without consequence and carried so many guns to school that he would witness the handguns literally falling out of other kids' jackets or pockets in the hallway and bathroom. I used to work at a school in western Sussex for one year, and I took a pay cut just to return back to Indian River. I wouldn't allow my son to attend any school in western Sussex (except maybe Delmar)--they need A LOT of help. That being said--I have heard that Seaford should be getting better. I sure hope so. I know a few teachers who work for the district and they have severe and dangerous discipline problems even in elementary school.

I do enjoy my trips to Trap Pond in Laurel, which is one of the nicest parks in Delaware. It's such a shame that drug dealers infiltrated that area, although they arrested many of them. The judicial system need to start giving real time to these dealers like Maryland has--repeat offenders are getting 20 years over in Maryland.

[LadyMichigan]

Delaware is a beautiful state, We lived for many years in the Rehoboth Beach, Long Neck, Lewes area. The area is close to DC. Baltimore and Philly all within easy driving. Georgetown has an excellent college with a large range of programs and activities geared to seniors. So much history happened in this area just becoming aquainted with this area could be a full time job. It is however not a place you can retire on a really tight budget. Medical services and Dr.s are excellent shopping is awesome from major outlet mall to boutiques and artisan shops Foodie you could eat something different every night, there is an authentic (owned and cooking down by a Brit) english restaurant Mushie peas and sticky toffee pudding to die for. If you have a hobby or interest there is probably a group with similar interests in the area.

[doctorjef]

My perception is that - apart from some state parks - western Sussex isn't promoted to any signficant degree by either private agencies or by the State. Of course, perhaps there is a chicken-egg sort of problem. There needs to be something there to promote. It strikes me as an isolated backwater that even many people living in the more coastal area of Sussex Co. know little about. Maybe real estate development will help the area, but it would seem that it will also require some intense government activism and state-private cooperation to relocate or develop new industry there.

There are many places in America like this, once prosperous but subsequently more or less permanently in the dumps after a major employer pulled out. From previous experience, I think of Mineral Wells, TX, which had a huge tourism and spa industry from the turn of the 20th Century until around the Second World War. That gradually faded, though the town's prosperity was still secured by an army base, Fort Wolters, the final mission of which was the training of Huey helicopter pilots during the Vietnam War. The base closed with the ending of America's involvement in Vietnam, and the town fell into permanent decline (even though it's only about 40 miles west of Fort Worth, it isn't on an interstate and isn't well placed to be a bedroom/commuter community, and has too much competition from towns closer to the Dallas-Fort Worth sprawl).

I hope that Seaford and western Sussex ultimately have a happier future. The disturbing thing to me is the proliferation of crime, which of course, goes along with poverty and absence of opportunity.

[DelawareLiz]

There are a lot of section eight housing projects and really seedy trailer parks out in western Sussex too....where most of the crime is (although not always--Trap Pond area wasn't like this). I'm not saying that everybody who is low income resorts to a life of crime--my husband grew up without much and he's one of the most decent and respectable people I've ever met. However, statistics do show that the majority of people in prison grew up in poverty.

I agree that western Sussex really isn't promoted and pretty much lives in the shadow of the beach resorts. However, I would still recommend visitors to check out Trap Pond or Phillips Landing. There are some wonderful (and inexpensive) family-owned restaurants in Laurel that I actually miss visiting. I used to dine out sometimes for lunch when I worked out that way. Miss the tasty food!!

[Pine to Vine]

Originally Posted by doctorjef

There are many places in America like this, once prosperous but subsequently more or less permanently in the dumps after a major employer pulled out. From previous experience, I think of Mineral Wells, TX, which had a huge tourism and spa industry from the turn of the 20th Century until around the Second World War. That gradually faded, though the town's prosperity was still secured by an army base, Fort Wolters, the final mission of which was the training of Huey helicopter pilots during the Vietnam War. The base closed with the ending of America's involvement in Vietnam, and the town fell into permanent decline (even though it's only about 40 miles west of Fort Worth, it isn't on an interstate and isn't well placed to be a bedroom/commuter community, and has too much competition from towns closer to the Dallas-Fort Worth sprawl).

Whether the the area is permanently in the dumps or not will play out over the next few decades. What differentiates Western Sussex from places such as Mineral Wells is its location. Being less than an hour drive from the Chesapeake and the Atlantic beaches will continue to make it make it attractive for some who want to be near such amenities but cannot afford to be at them. Another factor is the fact that Delaware itself continues to become an attractive place for people to do business and call home. It may just be that as the rest of the state fills up, Western Sussex becomes the last frontier.

Still I agree with the concerns raised in comments by you and Liz. The combination of lower quality housing and crime is not something that would give potential employers or residents reason to think they have found a good area to plant stakes. While I disagree with you Jef that there is nothing there to promote, I do believe the area has fallen into neglect and much of what was once very nice has been over-shadowed by the seediness.

IMO, the so called "leaders" of the community simply placed all their chips with DuPont, and went into denial as the plant inevitably declined. It will take someone with a vision to spur a new era for that region. While that's never been the long suit for Seaford and environs, I'll keep my fingers crossed that someone will realize the gem they have and learn how to capitalize on it.