Delaware and the Mason-Dixon Line (Wilmington, Dover: home, rent, vacation)

[Tom Lennox 70]

There's this big debate on the Maryland forum about whether Maryland is a northern or a southern state, and also whether Washington, D.C. and Baltimore are northern or southern cities. on Facebook I'm a member of a group titled "The Mason Dixon Line Should be a Fence" which is against northern transplants and influence in the "South". That group's pictures included a Maryland license plate with a Confederate seal on it for the Sons of Confederate veterans. It also showed a map of the Mason-Dixon Line and that version shows Delaware as the northern side.

Since we're in that north-south debate I also wonder about Delaware, especially since my family vacations there almost every year around Rehoboth Beach, Dewey, or Bethany. (I learned 2 years ago Rehoboth was a gay beach and it has felt different to me ever since......I really hope they don't start using that stage by the Boardwalk to do reenactments of Bareback Mountain .). One year at the Big Oaks campground in Rehoboth there was a Confederate flag flying on the gate.

So which side of the Mason-Dixon Line is Delaware on? Some sources say its a northern state and that the Line follows the MD-DE border because Delaware started out as part of Pennsylvania which is north. Otheres extend the MD-PA border across Delaware which means the state is split, mostly southern, but the area around Wilmington northern. But this area would place parts of New Jersey in the south, like Cape May and perhaps even Atlantic City. Others have said the South in Delaware is Sussex County where the beaches are, and yet others have said the canal is the border (so I guess thanks to the canal the southern Delmarva is technically an island now....my cousins from Idaho pointed it out, but that's a whole different thing ) Wikipeida also had something about the "wedge" in the Mason-Dixon Line which is kinda confusing.

So where exactly does the Mason-Dixon Line run in relation to Delaware? Is Delaware a northeastern or a southern state? Do most natives consider it north or south? Is it like Maryland and NC and VA that's overrun with Jersey and NY transplants bringing their snotty and rude attitudes and liberal politics? I've only met one Delaware native before and she was from Wilmington and didn't have an accent. In Maryland some people in rural areas have an southern-sounding accent (though not exactly Southern....another big point in the MD debate....some just call it a "country accent" LOL). How do natives from Delaware talk? Are the speech patterns more northern or southern?

I actually have a "quiz your friends" question on AIM where people guess/answer which are the only 2 musical artists I listen to who come from north of the Mason-Dixon Line. If Delaware is north then that's 3 artists because I've taken a liking to Chuck Wicks, Smryna's native son. I really love his music, especially "Stealin' Cinderella" which is played on the radio all the time now in the DC area. I looked up Smryna on wikipedia and it looks like such a wonderful, pleasant little town that's more down-home friendly like the South vs. the north.

[wilman]

Delaware is both North and South while New Castle county the Northern part of delaware lies above the line and Kent county starts under the line making it part of the South. Even though the Southern part of delaware is in the South it was the only state to stay with the Union during the Civil War making it a Northern state. As for Maryland its the same as De to me its Close to Pa and also sits in the South.

[rdlr]

My ancestors are from the Mason-Dixon clan (not saying which) and there is a marker on the Maryland-Delaware boundary, in the town of Marydel, Delaware (and Maryland). That town is split between the two states. I guess we can be what we want to be, as far as north-south. But I feel more southern, than northern, and I've been told I have a "country" accent, although that's a kind way of saying "hick". Delaware is on the east side of the marker, and the road running past that marker is Halltown Road, so I guess that's where there is the confusion.....east-west vs. north-south.

Chuck Wicks left Smyrna about 10 years ago, I understand. His aunt is superintendent of the Smyrna School District. Yes, we like him, also. Our family went to Smyrna Schools and we are Delaware natives. And, about Rehoboth, there are many transplants from the D.C./Virginia areas.

[anniebleu]

I've heard this "Is Delaware North or South" debated for all my 30 years here. I'm not a native, grew up in NJ, but 30 years is much of my adult life.

Few of the natives I've met have that Eastern Shore (MD) or Virginia native "Tidewater" accent. That, I would really consider Southern! But, in Dover, if you find a native, there is some sort of detectable accent, and I've often thought it's just a hint hillbilly (no negative connotation here; I'm very interested in accents) mixed with a bit of Philadelphia. It slightly resembles accents I've heard in the southern NJ area, but I'm not describing the definitely from the Philadelphia area accent here.

I've never met a native of New Jersey who considers themselves Southern, and I, transplanted to Dover, Delaware have never considered myself anything but Northern, even after a little more than 30 years here. Our children, now grown, have always thought of themselves as Northerners. As I've heard stated SO many times, you can even look out from most of the way down to the beaches at night, across the bay, and see the lights of NJ in the distance! My husband says he is sure the lights he sees as the bay broadens into the ocean at Rehoboth are in NJ. There's little left of Delaware going south once you're in Rehoboth, so how can this be a Southern state, with New Jersey just east of us?

Nevertheless, I can see either view taken of Kent and Sussex counties. We've known people to move from Southern states to Dover (two families), who stated that Dover felt more southern than where they'd come from. I have to tell you that one of these families moved away because of this. They wanted the North.

Sussex county may feel very Southern, some of it, but the beach towns are quite cosmopolitan, at least during the warm months when you find people from all over.

Terrapin, you say that you "learned 2 years ago that Rehoboth is a gay beach" and that it has "felt different ever since." I don't think you're bashing, but Rehoboth is truly a place for everyone. I wouldn't characterize it as "a gay beach." Not that there's anything wrong........etc....

Annie

[mike0421]

To me, the Mason-Dixon line is just that, a line. Much the same way nations in Africa or the Middle East were re-defined in post WWII, without considering cultural differences are not really defined by a surveyor's line, but rather, natural boundaries. That is to say, the Delmarva Peninsula probably has a separate culture, not to mention dialect, than say the mainland section of Maryland, because it's boundary is more of a natural one, in this case, the Chesapeake Bay. In modern times, transportation can be considered a good arbiter of what constitutes a cultural 'fault line'. To that end, consider I-95, through the northeast corridor. The closer settlements are to this road, the more politically liberal they tend to be, because this is where the big cities are located. Boston transitions to Providence, to New Haven to Fairfield County CT, Westchester NY, NYC, to NJ, then Northern Del, Baltimore, then D.C. Consider all these places. If one were to move from one of these places to another, they would likely feel more comfortable than say if someone moved from Providence to Sussex County Delaware, or from Hancock MD (at the western end of Maryland) to Newark NJ. So, if there is a modern day Mason-Dixon line, I'd reformulate it as a buffer zone down the I-95 corridor. The further you stray from this road, the more 'confederate' it will feel, in contrast, the closer you are, the more 'union' or urban. After all,that's originally the idea of the Union vs the Confederacy, urban or centralized government asserting itself against the more decentralized or agrarian economy of the south. Today it's a little more realigned.

I wonder if this makes any sense to anyone.

[Tom Lennox 70]

Originally Posted by wilman

Delaware is both North and South while New Castle county the Northern part of delaware lies above the line and Kent county starts under the line making it part of the South. Even though the Southern part of delaware is in the South it was the only state to stay with the Union during the Civil War making it a Northern state. As for Maryland its the same as De to me its Close to Pa and also sits in the South.

Actually Maryland, Missouri, and Kentucky were all slaveholding states that stayed in the Union. West Virginia broke off from Virginia when the state government in Richmond decided to join the Confederacy.

[Tom Lennox 70]

Originally Posted by Delly

My ancestors are from the Mason-Dixon clan (not saying which) and there is a marker on the Maryland-Delaware boundary, in the town of Marydel, Delaware (and Maryland). That town is split between the two states. I guess we can be what we want to be, as far as north-south. But I feel more southern, than northern, and I've been told I have a "country" accent, although that's a kind way of saying "hick". Delaware is on the east side of the marker, and the road running past that marker is Halltown Road, so I guess that's where there is the confusion.....east-west vs. north-south.

Chuck Wicks left Smyrna about 10 years ago, I understand. His aunt is superintendent of the Smyrna School District. Yes, we like him, also. Our family went to Smyrna Schools and we are Delaware natives. And, about Rehoboth, there are many transplants from the D.C./Virginia areas.

Thanks for the answer! This I guess must be definite if there's a marker there. I assume it must be because when the line was drawn, Delaware was still part of Pennsylvania and I believe the line's purpose was to decarmate the boundary between Maryland and DE. I'm not really southern but I like to think that I am because I used to live in Louisiana. My parents are immigrants from Taiwan but I feel much more affinity to the culture of the South and Middle America than to the whole Northeast values and mentality.

Btw the thing about Marydel is interesting because Delmar, on Maryland's Eastern Shore is also shared between MD and DE.

[Tom Lennox 70]

Annie, I'm not bashing the gay aspect of Rehoboth, its just that you kind of feel uncomfortable if you are a straight male and there might be a lot of gays you know watching you and all. I know someone who found out halfway through a year in College Park that one of his roommates was gay its not a great feeling.

But Rehoboth doesn't rank too high on my list of beaches anymore. Last time I went there the beach was very rocky and all, unlike years ago when it was all smooth sand. However the Delaware beaches are better than the Jersey beaches, especially Atlantic City which is filled with trash, where the famous boardwalk is actually concrete and there are stray cats living under the boardwalk. Its also better than Virginia Beach for the same reasons.

Delaware is great for a two-day getaway but IMO the beach beaches north of Florida are probably the OUter Banks in NC. I've yet to visit Myrtle Beach or Hilton Head. Sorry for going off topic and this is really making me hate winter.....

[Tom Lennox 70]

Originally Posted by mike0421

To me, the Mason-Dixon line is just that, a line. Much the same way nations in Africa or the Middle East were re-defined in post WWII, without considering cultural differences are not really defined by a surveyor's line, but rather, natural boundaries. That is to say, the Delmarva Peninsula probably has a separate culture, not to mention dialect, than say the mainland section of Maryland, because it's boundary is more of a natural one, in this case, the Chesapeake Bay. In modern times, transportation can be considered a good arbiter of what constitutes a cultural 'fault line'. To that end, consider I-95, through the northeast corridor. The closer settlements are to this road, the more politically liberal they tend to be, because this is where the big cities are located. Boston transitions to Providence, to New Haven to Fairfield County CT, Westchester NY, NYC, to NJ, then Northern Del, Baltimore, then D.C. Consider all these places. If one were to move from one of these places to another, they would likely feel more comfortable than say if someone moved from Providence to Sussex County Delaware, or from Hancock MD (at the western end of Maryland) to Newark NJ. So, if there is a modern day Mason-Dixon line, I'd reformulate it as a buffer zone down the I-95 corridor. The further you stray from this road, the more 'confederate' it will feel, in contrast, the closer you are, the more 'union' or urban. After all,that's originally the idea of the Union vs the Confederacy, urban or centralized government asserting itself against the more decentralized or agrarian economy of the south. Today it's a little more realigned.

I wonder if this makes any sense to anyone.

There is a lot of truth in this obervation, though there are plenty of working-class Democrats around Pittsburgh, western PA, and Western Maryland. They're different from the snotty liberals from Boston and Long Island though. Its a shame the latter dominates the Dem. party and not the former.

Mostly, though the I-95 thing IS true, but within the "Northeast" which still is undefined. But even on 95, once it goes past DC's southern suburbs, its still conservative and definitely Southern.

[Howest2008]

Originally Posted by Terrapin2212

There's this big debate on the Maryland forum about whether Maryland is a northern or a southern state, and also whether Washington, D.C. and Baltimore are northern or southern cities. on Facebook I'm a member of a group titled "The Mason Dixon Line Should be a Fence" which is against northern transplants and influence in the "South". That group's pictures included a Maryland license plate with a Confederate seal on it for the Sons of Confederate veterans. It also showed a map of the Mason-Dixon Line and that version shows Delaware as the northern side.

Since we're in that north-south debate I also wonder about Delaware, especially since my family vacations there almost every year around Rehoboth Beach, Dewey, or Bethany. (I learned 2 years ago Rehoboth was a gay beach and it has felt different to me ever since......I really hope they don't start using that stage by the Boardwalk to do reenactments of Bareback Mountain .). One year at the Big Oaks campground in Rehoboth there was a Confederate flag flying on the gate.

So which side of the Mason-Dixon Line is Delaware on? Some sources say its a northern state and that the Line follows the MD-DE border because Delaware started out as part of Pennsylvania which is north. Otheres extend the MD-PA border across Delaware which means the state is split, mostly southern, but the area around Wilmington northern. But this area would place parts of New Jersey in the south, like Cape May and perhaps even Atlantic City. Others have said the South in Delaware is Sussex County where the beaches are, and yet others have said the canal is the border (so I guess thanks to the canal the southern Delmarva is technically an island now....my cousins from Idaho pointed it out, but that's a whole different thing ) Wikipeida also had something about the "wedge" in the Mason-Dixon Line which is kinda confusing.

So where exactly does the Mason-Dixon Line run in relation to Delaware? Is Delaware a northeastern or a southern state? Do most natives consider it north or south? Is it like Maryland and NC and VA that's overrun with Jersey and NY transplants bringing their snotty and rude attitudes and liberal politics? I've only met one Delaware native before and she was from Wilmington and didn't have an accent. In Maryland some people in rural areas have an southern-sounding accent (though not exactly Southern....another big point in the MD debate....some just call it a "country accent" LOL). How do natives from Delaware talk? Are the speech patterns more northern or southern?

I actually have a "quiz your friends" question on AIM where people guess/answer which are the only 2 musical artists I listen to who come from north of the Mason-Dixon Line. If Delaware is north then that's 3 artists because I've taken a liking to Chuck Wicks, Smryna's native son. I really love his music, especially "Stealin' Cinderella" which is played on the radio all the time now in the DC area. I looked up Smryna on wikipedia and it looks like such a wonderful, pleasant little town that's more down-home friendly like the South vs. the north.

Refresh my memory didn't Washington D.C. and Baltimore and Delaware fight on the side of the Union (Northern States) that would determine if they are Northern or Southern States don't you think.