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When we talk about HOA costs - high or low I don't think we are all considering the same list of items for which the HOA my be responsible.
We definitely are not considering the same list of items. For example, at Champions Club, the HOA fee covers more than just mowing and snow removal. The services for landscaping including mowing, mulching, trimming and weeding. In addition, there is an exterior maintenance component for my home that includes repainting the outside portions of the home that require painting on a periodic schedule, roof repair, driveway sealing and clearing leaves from the gutters (not that we have a lot of trees, but still). I am not aware of another 55+ community that provides such a comprehensive array of services and it was this exterior maintenance plan that was one of the huge selling points for me for Champions Club. The idea of never having to climb up a ladder again to work on the outside of my home is very appealing.
So there really is not a chance to "agree on a list of what items the HOA is responsible for paying" because each one offers different services.
I've seen the prospectus and budget from two different 55+ communities and each one spells out exactly what is included, and the cost of each. I'm sure that each community has a similar document.
I like the idea of a sinking fund for future expenses - so much so that I use that concept in my home budget. In my HOA fees, I'd much rather pay a few dollars each month toward the inevitable new roof than to be surprised one day with a huge increase because we didn't plan appropriately.
I've seen the prospectus and budget from two different 55+ communities and each one spells out exactly what is included, and the cost of each. I'm sure that each community has a similar document.
We also have a copy of the prospectus and budget for Roesville's HOA both pre-clubhouse and after it is completed. Because there is no clubhouse at this time, the monthly HOA is substantially lower as are the included items/services provided. We are aware and have made the choice that is right for us at this time.
Charley is once again correct...do the research and make choices based upon your current and anticipated future needs.
I do realize that each community HOA may include different services, but, I am wondering if the vast differences in $'s that have been discussed recently may have components the average homeowner does not realize may be the resonsibility of the HOA organization.
For example, in my present community (which is about the same size as CC acreage) the HOA covers cutting grass/ landsacping ONLY the open space (about 20% of the community) and removing snow from one long sidewalk on the main road that runs through the community. The actual cost the HOA pays to the contractors is 57% of the budget The remaining 43% covers insurance, maintenance, accounting functions, capital improvements etc. My point is that these behind the scene costs add a substantial amount to the costs to run an HOA. Our budget for 2010 is about $125K. We do not have street lights, community centers, pools, gutter cleaning etc. - it is basically that we get the grass cut on only the community open space for $125K per year.
I moved into my present home about two years after the development started and it took about 5 more years for the builder to complete the community. As soon as the HOA was turned over to the residents to operate our yearly HOA dues doubled to cover actual costs. HOA fees went up again about 5 years later another 33%. Our HOA has managed to maintain services for the last 10 years without raising yearly HOA dues because we have several volunteers willing to take care of minor maintenance issues and they now turn over deliquent homeowners to the courts to collect unpaid dues.
The point I am trying to make is that regardless of the specific services provided in a particular community those services have attached to them a lot of behind the scenes costs such as real estate taxes on the open space, a sinking fund for capital improvements, liability insurance etc. These HOA costs may be under the radar when the average homeowner is trying to determine if the present HOA fees will be adequate to cover actual expenses when the builder finishes the community.
While it would be great if the HOA fees quoted by the builder do cover actual costs 5 to 10 years from now - I am not convinced that will be the case. Reading the HOA newsletters put out by various communities that have been up and running for 5 or more years seems to indicate otherwise. Add the new DE laws requiring HOA's/Condo's to maintain a sinking fund to insure that the money will be available when it is needed is a good thing - but, it will force many to increase their HOA/Condo fees to meet those requirements.
While it would be great if the HOA fees quoted by the builder do cover actual costs 5 to 10 years from now - I am not convinced that will be the case. Reading the HOA newsletters put out by various communities that have been up and running for 5 or more years seems to indicate otherwise. Add the new DE laws requiring HOA's/Condo's to maintain a sinking fund to insure that the money will be available when it is needed is a good thing - but, it will force many to increase their HOA/Condo fees to meet those requirements.
The HOA "budget" for Champions Club was written in two phases. The first phase assumed a certain number of homes in the first year. The second phase was written as a complete community. There are several line items for reserves, deferred maintenance and capital replacements (the "sinking funds") that represents a little more than one quarter of the budget.
Remember a few things about budgets. They are best guess estimates of costs written at the start of the budget for costs that might not be incurred for twenty years. While written with the best of intentions, there will always be variances from budget. No budget can ever account for every possibility.
I would hope that the advice "caveat emptor" offered earlier in our thread would be taken to heart by anyone looking to make any large purchase, especially a home in a community with an HOA. Anyone who does not review what costs are associated with his/her purchase is making a critical mistake. And yes, I know it's possible that there will be some who jump in with both feet before understanding what they are doing. I would tend to think that folks like us who participate in forums like this look before we leap.
Last edited by Gone-2-Beach; 07-25-2010 at 06:00 PM..
Remember a few things about budgets. They are best guess estimates of costs written at the start of the budget for costs that might not be incurred for twenty years. While written with the best of intentions, there will always be variances from budget. No budget can ever account for every possibility.
I would hope that the advice "caveat emptor" offered earlier in our thread would be taken to heart by anyone looking to make any large purchase, especially a home in a community with an HOA. I would tend to think that folks like us who participate in forums like this look before we leap.
As adults who have raised families and owned homes we all have the advantage of the "life experience" we have accumulated over the years. I suspect that we have each suffered through hard times of varying degree and rejoiced during the happy times. These lessons are what we draw upon as we move into the next phase of our lives. Because most of us will be living on fixed incomes, a working, yet flexible budget is critical.
Although hubby and I have purchased a home at Roesville, we are not living in a financial fantasy world. Yes, the HOA fees are very low just now, but we also understand that in order to maintain a lovely neighborhood and a great clubhouse, we will have to contribute to it's maintenance. I suspect eventually that our HOA fees will be comparable to those in similar sized communities. Meanwhile, we'll just tuck away the difference and set aside funds for the inevitable increase in fees.
Each of us has ideas as to what is affordable, reasonable, and necessary. "Amenities" by definition are useful, desirable features, but are not necessities. Our personal budget allows for the necessities of now and the immediate future...we also have a working "miscellaneous" column set aside for the amenities. We will have a huge mortgage on our new home and utilities/insurance/etc. that must be paid every month, but we also have substantial savings for life's amenities. As long as "services provided" increase along with increase in the HOA fees, we should have no complaints or difficulties. But we don't want to pay in advance.
My point? Research, plan, define your own personal necessities -vs- amenities, and be prepared for the unexpected.
I am not convinced that out-living the 30yr warranty on our architectural shingles is a bad thing.
I'm Laughing cuz you have no idea what this thread has been through really in 3 years. To heck and back quite a few times.
Everyone has their own views and good for them........
In the end......Everyone ends up where they are supposed to and happy.
A lot of times it is the way posts are worded that rub people the wrong way.
So now lets play nice.
A pool and clubhouse is not important to everyone. Me it is but some don't care one way or another.
Some prefer CC, some prefer roesville and others Nobles pond. Each person has different needs and wants.
Some want a solid home that will last forever. Me I don't care.
But thats okay
So what. We are in Southen Meadows and have the time of our lives.
That is just what we wanted. Bowling yesterday. Oh and I now have a 75 average. I'm moving up from my 40.
Neighbors that moved came back for a visit. They are in a swanky community in Northern jersey with not much to do.
They said we never had so many nice friends who love to be active.
I do think they will be back to Sm I really do.
Last edited by toobusytoday; 07-28-2010 at 06:18 AM..
Once again, you have started my morning with a laugh. The people who have been on this site for several years are like the mother lion who defends her cubs to the end. I wish you all well and hope you all make or have made the choice which will bring you joy. Have a blessed day, Thank goodness.
Once again, you have started my morning with a laugh. The people who have been on this site for several years are like the mother lion who defends her cubs to the end. I wish you all well and hope you all make or have made the choice which will bring you joy. Have a blessed day, Thank goodness.
Hi TG - glad to see that you are still with us. How is your search going for your choice of 55+ community. If I remember correctly, you were also looking in the "Dover area". Can you share your progress with us? Thanks.
Hi Charley, we are still trying to sell our home in Ct. We will probably end up in NJ where we have several good friends and family. I know that the taxes are high, but our taxes are high now so we will deal with that. I will probably try to get work as a tutor parttime, I am too young for SS. Thanks again for the info on the site. I will continue to check up on your progress. Good luck and be well, Thank goodness
A pool and clubhouse is not important to everyone. Me it is but some don't care one way or another...
Some want a solid home that will last forever. Me I don't care.
But thats okay...
quote]
EM, you are exactly correct. We've never lived in a "clubhouse" community, yet we always find something to do. We love the beach, fishing, hiking, biking, golf, etc. A clubhouse will be a nice addition to our lives for socializing, but for now we can do without.
Everyone in this forum seems to have a general idea as to what they are looking for in retirement and I am confident all will find their dream homes. I hope someone here chooses Roesville, too...ya'll are good people and I feel like we are already neighbors.
We received a photo of our new foundation/slab. The construction equipment makes for a nice background. Next door neighbor's home is underway now, too. The street is ready and the curbs were poured Monday. Also, the cornfield in our backyard looks great...but it's not the eating kind. We'll have an unobstructed view of the sunrise from the screened porch, and nice dark skies for stargazing. Life is good
Carpe diem all.
Last edited by Goin'2DE; 07-28-2010 at 07:29 AM..
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Selling our home in CT
. Next door neighbor's home is underway now, too. The street is ready and the curbs were poured Monday. Also, the cornfield in our backyard looks great...but it's not the eating kind
. We'll have an unobstructed view of the sunrise from the screened porch, and nice dark skies for stargazing. Life is good
