Need advice please (gums, hurts, infections, side)

[BLAZER PROPHET]

I am a dental risk manager. And here is my $.02.

Mini implants are least invasive and often used for people who smoke of have diabetes or have a history of Hepatitis... Implants have a fairly high failure rate as well. For them to fail and for infections to set in are not unusual. That said, this may be a case of negligence. It’s hard to tell based on the information you have given me. Another thought is once the implants have been removed, you have been made “whole” for the most part and general damages (pain & suffering) is minimal in these cases.

My suggestion is to send a letter to the doctor and demand a full refund. Pay back to you what you have paid to the credit company and the unpaid balance to the credit card company. Give him 30 days. If he refuses, go and find an attorney. BUT, find one that specializes in medical malpractice and not auto injuries.

[drsmiley06]

Did you just respond by saying that your dentist didn't provide informed consent? And he placed implants in the maxillary arch? Yikes! For some unknown freakin reason some dentists don't consent for major dental procedures and I'm not sure why. I obtain written and oral consent from the patient for root canals and extractions, every time!

And it sounds like this dentist bit off more than he could chew, especially with the implants. For some unknown reason, I keep seeing general dentist dabble with implants without really having the knowledge and expertise to do them. I can remember fondly, while doing my residency in General Dentistry at Temple Univ. in Philly, every Tuesday we had a Prosdontist come in as faculty and we had two of them. Every time these two guys walked in they would say to us and I quote "we don't know why general dentists do implants because we repeatedly have to bail these guys out when things go bad." I always remembered that and always will. It sounds like this dentist got tired of dealing with you as a patient and dealing with the implant problems, the denture problems, etc.......And this is why I don't deal with implants because I'm going to be honest with you, they are a big pain in the ass, especially when it comes to full arch reconstruction. There's alot that goes into that, for example, the occlusion of the plate to the lower arch. Heck, it sounds like that wasn't even the problem, sounds like it's the actual implants themselves which should've been the first red flag.

It's like some dentists that feel that if a patient has a painful tooth that crowning it will take away the pain, Noooooooo! Where in the world did you go to dental and while you're at it show me the text book that states putting a crown (cap) on top of the tooth takes away pain. So if you went back to the dentist and told him/her that it's still painful and he looked at the x-rays to make sure there was osteointegration he/she would've seen all this. Write to this dentist and tell him that you want a partial refund for the work completed. Yes he should get paid for his time, supplies and lab costs but there's got to be a way he refunds part of that money. If not, look for a lawyer that deals with medical/dental problems, trust me they're out there and tell them your story.

By the way, can you image breaking your arm and having the orthopedic surgeon resetting your arm back into position, slapping a cast over your arm and then saying "hey, you play football? go ahead, that arm will be fine, don't worry about it. You ride that 4-wheeler, go right ahead, don't sweat it, your arm is in a cast, it'll be just fine." Always amazes me when some of these dentists advertise "teeth in a day" slogans. Here's what happens, they sink those implants in your jaw and slap the abutments on top and then put temporary crowns on. I would love to see someone like that and then right afterwards take them out and buy them a nice juicy cheesesteak and say, "now go ahead, bite as hard as you can into that sandwich and tell me how that feels." I'm willing to bet that the pain shots right up into your skull.

I hope you find resolution to this problem and get a good fitting upper denture.

[markelsteph]

Thanks Pippy, Pammy, CSD and Jeanne for your input, As far as AnonChik, this is the second time that you have answered me in a tone that I DO NOT appreciate. And I am a WOMAN!! And a single mother, college-educated, raising two very wonderful children and working full time. Now, about your comments " you dont have to sue" just get the lawyer to send a letter............regardless of either, I still have to PAY a lawyer and go thru the hassle of it all!!! Which I tried to avoid. Second, I never once said that this was a new dentist for me, I had been seeing him for four years before the implants were brought up. And yes, I did fill out all the nonsense paperwork and yes, he did know about my diabetes and all that!!! However, he said it was NOT an issue with getting implants!! He said that it would be fine, because I was so resistant, however , it was my top teeth were in such bad condition, that he pushed these implants, rather than 8 root canals and caps!! He, knowing and treating me for years, said that the implants would be uneventful diabetic-wise. Third, I never do anything blindly when it comes to my health and I never once suggested that I did that!!! I simply said that he said it didnt matter.....diabetic getting implants., just infection control and healing time increased. I joined this forum because it sounded like a nice, way to get some ADULT advice from others who maybe went thru something similar. And everyone who has replied to my post has been kind and genuinely concerned and kind EXCEPT U!! I ignored your first two RUDE replies but just cant hold my tongue this time!!! Who exactly do you think you are? I am a college-educated, multi-tasking, single-parent and probably have more intelligence that your big toe!!! So, please stay off of my posts and leave me to people who are adult and informed about this subject, because you dont have a clue!! Thank you

[PippySkiddles]

Originally Posted by markelsteph

Thanks Pippy, Pammy, CSD and Jeanne for your input, As far as AnonChik, this is the second time that you have answered me in a tone that I DO NOT appreciate. And I am a WOMAN!! And a single mother, college-educated, raising two very wonderful children and working full time. Now, about your comments " you dont have to sue" just get the lawyer to send a letter............regardless of either, I still have to PAY a lawyer and go thru the hassle of it all!!! Which I tried to avoid. Second, I never once said that this was a new dentist for me, I had been seeing him for four years before the implants were brought up. And yes, I did fill out all the nonsense paperwork and yes, he did know about my diabetes and all that!!! However, he said it was NOT an issue with getting implants!! He said that it would be fine, because I was so resistant, however , it was my top teeth were in such bad condition, that he pushed these implants, rather than 8 root canals and caps!! He, knowing and treating me for years, said that the implants would be uneventful diabetic-wise. Third, I never do anything blindly when it comes to my health and I never once suggested that I did that!!! I simply said that he said it didnt matter.....diabetic getting implants., just infection control and healing time increased. I joined this forum because it sounded like a nice, way to get some ADULT advice from others who maybe went thru something similar. And everyone who has replied to my post has been kind and genuinely concerned and kind EXCEPT U!! I ignored your first two RUDE replies but just cant hold my tongue this time!!! Who exactly do you think you are? I am a college-educated, multi-tasking, single-parent and probably have more intelligence that your big toe!!! So, please stay off of my posts and leave me to people who are adult and informed about this subject, because you dont have a clue!! Thank you

You're welcome! And I'm sorry you were made to feel inept because I didn't feel you are and you did nothing wrong. Please update us as to the outcome.

[markelsteph]

Dr Smiley and Blazer, Thank you greatly for your educated and knowledgeable reply to my problem. Yes, this dentist is just a regular dentist. However, the office staff and other dentists (in his practice) call him the "implant king" and highly recommended him to me. He showed me videos of new implant smiles and assured me his success rate was 98%, including diabetics. I thought about making an official complaint to the State Medical Board or the Prof. Licensing Org. but decided to give him the benefit of the doubt. I did send him a letter on June 15th (implants were removed June 1st) and he never replied, or responded. He avoided my phone calls as well as his office staff. No one wanted to talk to me so I went in there. I was told that he did receive my letter and was aware of the situation and was "working on it". As of today, still nothing!! However, my question is....what is a fair refund? If I get only the balance outstanding of the loan refunded, then that means that I paid $5,600 for extractions and a regular plate (and a whole lot of misery). Is that fair? I dont know. This is my dilemma right now,while awaiting his supposed offer. Thanks for your input.

[AnonChick]

markelsteph:
1. You did respond to my first post, and you thanked me for it. In that post, I suggested you contact a lawyer to help you get out of the billing mess. You said you couldn't afford court.
2. So I then clarified, because you assumed when I said "contact a laywer" I meant "take them to court." I clarified, to say, I didn't mean "take them to court," I meant "contact a lawyer" (which was what I said the first time).
3. You then recevied advice from others telling you to take them to court and sue them.
4. I reminded them - the ones who were demanding that you sue them - that you don't necessarily have to sue them, to get the money back. Lawsuits cost a LOT more than just contacting a lawyer. A lawyer is free -only- if you lose a case, and -only- if they work on contingency, and then, if they win, they take 30% or more of your winning amount right out of the check the judge says you are entiteld to. Consulting a lawyer without taking it to court, costs a whole lot less.

5. I was trying to help you save money, since you seemed very upset about the expenses involved. And in your insulting post to me ordering me not to post in a public forum, you say you don't want to deal with the hassle of a lawyer - what hassle is involved, in picking up the phone, calling for a consultation, and sending them the information that you have already told us here on city-data? You seem to be very upset with me, for trying to help you -save- a huge hassle that you -will- end up with, if you take it to court.

The simplest, least-involved process in getting money back is to first ASK the dentist to give you your money back. If that fails, consult a lawyer. If THAT fails, take the dentist to court.

As an educated adult, I'm surprised you are taking offense with this advice. It is the same advice I would give any other educated adult, when dealing with work done by a professional that left you wanting, and left you out a whole lot of money.

[drsmiley06]

Well, if the implants were removed and most likely he sent them back to the company, which means he would've gotten some kind of refund himself. Usually the implant companies will tell dentists that if an implant fails or needs to be removed for any reason they can send it back for a partial refund. Ask the dentist how much he received after returning those implants, that might help in recovering your costs.

[markelsteph]

Dr S....thanks so much for that info!! His office girl said that by "working on it", he was figuring a FAIR refund. She said that he had to get the costs of the implants and blah blah. I figured that was his biggest expense, since they were titanium implants. So, again, thanks for that info, now I can be armed with the knowledge that he did receive something back when he returned my implants. The only other thing that would have cost him, besides his time and effort with me, was the plates. I had a temp plate that I wore for 2 1/2 yrs and broke in half but I still wore it and another 2 plates that he had made that were ridiculous looking and he told me to "just keep them". So, I am assuming the plates are not expensive? He could have sent them back to be re-done, but I brought them home? So, I guess he is stuck, working on figuring his time with me? Also, doesn't he have insurance to cover these kinds of things? Cant he make a claim to his malpractice insurance? To pay me?

[BLAZER PROPHET]

Originally Posted by markelsteph

Dr S....thanks so much for that info!! His office girl said that by "working on it", he was figuring a FAIR refund. She said that he had to get the costs of the implants and blah blah. I figured that was his biggest expense, since they were titanium implants. So, again, thanks for that info, now I can be armed with the knowledge that he did receive something back when he returned my implants. The only other thing that would have cost him, besides his time and effort with me, was the plates. I had a temp plate that I wore for 2 1/2 yrs and broke in half but I still wore it and another 2 plates that he had made that were ridiculous looking and he told me to "just keep them". So, I am assuming the plates are not expensive? He could have sent them back to be re-done, but I brought them home? So, I guess he is stuck, working on figuring his time with me? Also, doesn't he have insurance to cover these kinds of things? Cant he make a claim to his malpractice insurance? To pay me?

You can demand (request is a nicer word) the name and number of his malpractice carrier and make a claim on your own. They may or may not help you. "Malpractice" isn't easy to prove. Simply because a procedure isn't successful or doesn't achieve it's intended outcome doesn't mean it raises to the level of malpractice. To prove malpractice, you have to show the doctor knowingly did this procedure incorrectly- and the fact it failed does not mean it was done incorrectly. I mean, maybe it was done improperly, I can't say.

Based on what you have said so far, I think you'd be well to have your money returned and the credit issue resolved.

Tell me something... what state did this take place in and when were the implants placed?

[markelsteph]

Blazer.........I am in Pa. and I got the implants in Sept. 2009. I really think that IF I wanted to........I would totally have a malpractice case. The last x-ray he did was in Oct 2010, yet he called in 8 anti-biotic prescriptions from then to the present. Also, I read that implants should be cleaned 3x per year by the dentist and he NEVER even mentioned having them cleaned, even with all the infections. (They have a special tool that cleans without scratching the implant). Forget that, just take this year......He prescribed me anti-biotic in Jan and Feb and then saw me three times the middle of Feb and never looked, checked or mentioned it. Just fitted me for the perm. plate. Then, when I mentioned it..........he looked and said oh yeah......they have to come out. Then he did an xray and confirmed that. Also, I got the implants removed on June 1st and today, July 22, I have huge swollen, hard masses at each implant site........too painful to wear my plate, too painful to eat.....diabetes out of control due to not being able to eat but soft food etc.........I am just saying that I have a pain and suffering lawsuit if I wanted to do that. But I am too nice and he has children etc.