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A couple of years old but still valid. Basically, if you buy a new house way far out there, don't expect to recoup any of your money, they will just build a newer house a mile further out next year for the same money.
The "new" Aurora is all of the development taking place very far away from any other parts of the metro area along what some people call the California highway, or E-470. There are a couple of things you consider before you move there.
House prices are cheaper, this is the drive until you can qualify mentality BUT in many cases property taxes are higher.
If your work is in, north or west of Denver think long and hard about this. You are already going to be spending enough on gas, but the remoteness of the area and lack of any light rail means your options are limited in terms of transportation, unlike your current (or soon to be) situation in Lakewood.
Your opinion of this area must be from your lack of knowledge about it. The homes surrounding us are hardly "drive until you qualify" since they are well into the $400-$750K range and that price can be found all over the metro area. It's something I've learned to ignore and so should other viewers of your "I hate the suburbs and everything about it" mentality.
We began our househunt qualified for a $480K house. We started looking at Stapleton right away because our realtor wanted us to see the "newest and greatest". I didn't get it. I've never understood the concept of "expensive dirt" so buying a regular house for WAY over what it's worth just because it's in a supposedly "cool" area didn't make any sense to me. Reading stories about DPS and it's sub-standard education as well as the overcrowded school problem in Stapleton confirmed my suspicions.
We targeted the suburbs for 2 reasons. Excellent schools and low crime. I have yet to meet a neighbor (and I know lots) who moved out here because they couldn't afford anything else.
HOWEVER, I will warn anyone looking for a house "out here"...this is not an area to live in if you work downtown. I go to downtown probably once a month, but it is silly to commute daily from here. The people I know in my neighborhood either work at the DTC, at the military base, at DIA (like my husband) or Centennial airport. Many of the parents at my children's school work from home.
Denver is not a huge city and there are decent places to live on nearly every side. You should not commute for more than 30 minutes (and that's from your driveway to the parking lot at work). When snow season hits, your commute can nearly double if you've got to drive a long way and that is not worth any amount of "house".
Ditto what the3Ds says above. We chose this area based specifically on school. In fact, we live within a mile of the3Ds and our kids go to the same school, so I can echo everything she's already said about this area NOT being "drive until you qualify". The folks on my street work in Littleton, from home, the DTC or within a reasonable drive distance.
My husband's "office" is actually in Commerce City, but he is in outside sales for a major corporation. His territory is mostly within the bounds of Aurora. When we were prequalified, our realtor automatically wanted to show us homes in other areas of the city. When we told her school district was our #1 priority she said we needed to focus on Cherry Creek Schools. We are happy we made this decision, and we are within a 10 minute drive to a light rail station should we choose to use that mode of transportation to get downtown. I've been here a year, and only been downtown a handful of times for various events. It's not really a necessity for us since we have everything we need within a 4 mile radius of our home.
Back to the questions at hand, OP - the 80015 zip has a lot to offer. I don't know about houses in your specific price range as we purchased higher; however, I do know that we have friends who have "school of choiced" into our daughter's highschool and I'm sure their home is within your pricerange. They live in a home that was built in the late 70s/early 80s just south of the Himalaya/Chenego intersection.The homes are built just as well as mine, but smaller. They still have block parties and know their neighbors. There is low crime in their area.
As per the housing market - I don't forsee it getting better in the near future. I am currently staying at home with my youngest. I am beginning to decide what career path I want to pursue when he starts school in a couple years (go back to school for my masters or switch careers completely)... one avenue I thought about was real estate. A friend is a realtor and she told me not to rush into that option without a lot of research. That she is selling houses for a lot less a sq. foot today than she was a few years back, and that in their meetings they are told to expect this trend to continue throughout the forseeable future.
Thanks for such a thoughtful reply. My wife and I are new to the whole 'buying a home' thing and so as much as I can hear the advice like you give, the better. I've already incorporated some of what you said into our process, but some of that is new (and very good) and can only come from experience.
I think what it is leading up to is tying to find a good house in the best area we can afford with good schools. The idea about thinking ahead as far as the house layout, room to expand, etc is something we are trying to incorporate since we'd like to have kids one day, but driving around, previewing neighborhoods, looking at the schools...thats something that I haven't really thought of yet. That might be because since our biggest limiting factor is the budget, we'd hate to drive around, fall in love with a neighborhood, but not be able to afford anything in there. I suppose though that the theory is sound, especially with surrounding areas. If I know that there are houses that could potentially be in our price range, I think I'm much more apt to apply the drive by test.
I like the idea of finding an older neighborhood in the Cherry Creek School district that is maybe a little bit more affordable. That would give us a really good sense of the area and would allow us to possibly find a slightly better home/neighborhood 5-10 years after we bought our first house and had some more time to save up.
Thanks everyone for all the great feedback. The search keeps narrowing in!
Glad to be of help. I for one, have no problem with the suburbs. I don't rely on my address or my city to make a "statement" about me. I'm comfortable with who I am, which at the moment is a mom with school-aged kids. I enjoy playdates and though I DO know the difference between fine dining and Chuck E. Cheese, I don't poo-poo chain restaurants for a decent meal with the family. My family and I didn't "drive til we qualified"...we could have bought a home in nearly any city in the metro area. Our priority list may be different than someone else's...we started with the school district and then looked for a house. Imagine our surprise when we found a 4-bedroom, 2000 sq foot house in a wonderful neighborhood that backed to open space, in an excellent school district with excellent local schools, a great mall nearby and an easy commute for my husband for $265K. We could have bought a bigger house or one with more square footage a few miles away, but our house fits us perfectly and gives us nearly $1000 in "wiggle room" every month that we wouldn't have had if we bought a house for what the bank qualified us for.
What I like about SE Aurora/Centennial (and I put the two cities together because as soon as I drive out of my neighborhood and make a right, I'm in the city of Centennial), is that I feel safe. There is a wonderful feeling of community here that means people take care of their property, they know their neighbors, they're involved in the schools. A few years ago, I would have hated this neighborhood and its "soccer mom-ness", but when I had kids, I decided it's less important to LOOK like the cool mom and actually BE the cool mom. My kids play sports AND they ask if we can go to the Nature & Science Museum...they think Chuck E. Cheese is the greatest and my daughter said the other day, "those clouds look like your Magritte painting".
My advice for you and your househunt is to really LOOK at your house. Don't get sucked in by the new house smell or the granite countertops. Those things can be changed. Look at the layout of the house. Is this a place you can raise young children in? An example is our house versus our neighbor's house. Our house is 4 bedrooms with all 4 upstairs. We have young kids (age 7 and 2) so it's nice that they are down the hall. Our neighbors have 3 bedrooms and a loft. There is a master bedroom and one bedroom upstairs, in addition to the loft. The 3rd bedroom is in the basement. They bought the house when they had one child and now they've got 2. The loft is open, with a half-wall that looks down onto the living room, so that cannot be used for a bedroom. The 3rd bedroom is in the basement, so it's not someplace you can put an infant or a 3 year old. So, they've got the square footage but have to make the girls share a room. Everytime I talk to my neighbor, he mentions how much he wishes he would have bought a house with a better floorplan for his family. He knows he is likely going to have to move, but they love the neighborhood so much, they are looking at homes just a few blocks away. Lesson learned...had they actually LOOKED at their house and thought about the floorplan, they could have bought a different home in the same neighborhood and wouldn't be having to prepare to move in a few years.
As far as the housing market goes, I am just speaking about it realistically, not politically. There isn't going to be a huge turnaround in the job market for at least a few years so there aren't going to be a lot of people looking for homes. A house 4 doors down sold in just 6 days! There will always be a housing market as people move or trade up, just as they've always done, but it is going to be a very long time before we see the frenzy that led us to the housing bust.
So, it's time to get back to the way things SHOULD be...which is that you find a house that you can make a HOME and you raise your family there. You don't buy a "starter" house or take out home equity loans. Find a house that you can afford the mortgage and that fits YOUR needs, not your realtor's, not your friend's. As you earn more money, you can make upgrades to your existing home. We have a "honey do" list of things we want in the future...nice appliances, better flooring, etc, but our house is just fine the way it is. We don't have stainless steel appliances or granite countertops yet we somehow manage to keep our food cold and make fantastic holiday meals with family. We changed out fixtures and painted every wall before we moved in so we are happy with things until we can save enough money to improve others. Minus any unforseen emergency, this is a house that my kids will have their high school graduation parties in (they're only 2 and 7 right now) so by the time it's time to move, we will have paid down so much on our mortgage or nearly paid it off. My parents haven't had a mortgage payment for about 10 years (I grew up in the house they live in now)...I always imagine what it would be like to have an extra $1600 every month that doesn't go to the mortgage. They're from the generation of people who live within their means. It's only been in the last 10 years that houses are suddenly "investments" and people use their homes like an ATM. When you're fresh out of college, it's not your "right" to own a McMansion, even if your bank tells you that you qualify. It's okay that someone has a nicer house than you do if they make more money. You house doesn't need to keep you up with the Joneses. Do it the old fashioned way...buy a house you can afford that you can grow into. Take an active role in your community and get to know your neighbors. Don't look at your house as some sort of statement about you...it's a place you live in, no more no less. If you're going to have kids, is the backyard ready for a slip & slide, are there sidewalks or at least non-busy roads where you can teach them to ride their bikes, are the bedrooms close enough to the master bedroom so you can hear them when they're babies and they wake up every hour or two, is there enough space for them to have a slumber party when they're older, does it have good schools that you can send your children to all the way through high school? Not every kid needs their own bedroom (though as someone who shared a room, I recommend it!) and not every family needs 4,000 square feet. The way a house is laid out makes all the difference and not every layout fits every family.
Don't get stuck in a house that was "pretty" only to find out you have wasted space or not enough space or only it had one thing going for it, and that is that you could afford it. If you can't afford it now, then look at renting or get an apartment. I am 37 and have lived all over this country and I am happy that I just became a homeowner 3 years ago. Renting is not "flushing money down the toilet" as so many claim. There is a peace of mind that comes with knowing you can call the landlord when the furnace stops working or know that you only have to give notice when you want to move instead of trying to sell a home. Target the area you want to live in and start a family and find a place to live. In our area, there are condos and apartment complexes, homes for rent and homes for sale. If you find that you love an area, you can start to put a plan in place to buy a home in it. Renting for a while in this market means that you may find a perfect place to live or you may think later, "whew...glad we didn't buy a house there." And remember, that you don't have to be a homeowner to have kids or to become a parent. There is not an award handed out if you are able to raise your kids in a gated community and in 4,000 square foot splendor versus making them share a room. You will be a better parent if you aren't freaking out about paying the mortgage and actually have time (and energy) after work to enjoy your children and to take them places.
Thanks for such detailed information! I really appreciate it. We've seen one or two houses in the Pheasant Run area so far, but I really haven't spent enough time in it to know exactly what its like. Most of that area seemed to be pretty well maintained (at least compared to some areas we've looked in).
For comparison sakes, next time you're in the area take a cruise through the neighborhood (not sure what it's called) bounded by Chambers, Yale, Laredo, and Hampden, and let me know how you think it compares to Pheasant Run. In the above-mentioned area, I notice a lot of chain link fences surrounding the front yard, rotting wood fences, a lot of vicious looking dogs around, total neglect of yards with completely dead grass/ rampant weeds everywhere, junked up cars parked on the street/driveway/front yard on just about every block.
In general, the old, cheap neighborhoods in Aurora don't seem to age very well. Once you get into the mid 200's on up the quality improves dramatically. I'm not sure about prices, but I've seen many 50's & 60's ranch home neighborhoods in Littleton and the old, western part of Centennial that still are in great shape.
Have you considered buying a condo? There are a LOT of townhome developments in south/southeast Aurora, older and newer, varying price points, where you could probably get something nicer at your price range than a SFR.
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Have you had any experience with the Aurora Highlands area, particularly the east side? Our budget is limited, and I'm still seeking out all our options in our price range, but there is still a lot I don't know. You mentioned Summer Valley Ranch. Are there other areas in addition to that that you might suggest? Or maybe its easier to think of areas/neighborhoods that you would avoid (due to crime, etc)?
In any case, thank you for sharing your experience, its cool to see the share of information.
And yep, I do live in lakewood and work just north of the DTC, so I have some access to that area to check it out more. Good call.
Where exactly is "Aurora Highlands"? I looked it up on Google maps and it showing the area bounded by Buckley, Mississippi, Tower, and Mexico-- is that correct? I'm not too familar with that particular area. From the APS district map (http://planning.aurorak12.org/files/2008/07/HighAttendanceAreas2010.pdf (broken link)) it appears to be part of Rangeview High School's attendance area, which is widely considered the best high school within the APS district.
Thank you so much to everyone that has contributed to this thread and has offered their feedback and experience!
My wife and I just got under contract on a house in Centennial - it is both exciting and scary at the same time. A lot of unknowns...but we are also in very good hands.
vegaspilgrim...you've offered a lot of straight-up info on some areas, thanks for sharing your experience. Its funny because in one of my previous posts I had mentioned that from what I had seen, the Pheasant Run area looked pretty nice. However, we just went out the other day looking at houses and several of them were in this area. Lets just say...I think I now get what you are saying
the3ds...wow, so much good info. I'll definitely bookmark your responses. I agree with them too. I'm more about living within my means and with a real common sense approach. I think you hit the nail on the head.
Denver has the lowest property taxes of all area communities UNLESS you live in some of the newer areas including Stapleton, GVR, etc. To ensure we're comparing apples to apples I'm listing the Mill Levy for a few areas based on a sample (ie could vary slightly)
So taxes are higher and include subdivision fees in some cases but Stapleton is quite high as well. Not to mention the lower cost/value in outlying areas and you the difference is at most maybe $1500/year (emphasis on at most) for the average house.
Last edited by Mike from back east; 07-23-2010 at 10:10 AM..
Reason: Quoted posting has been deleted.
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