CU Denver business school? (Aurora, Boulder: credit, student loans, debt)

[DENVERBULLDOG]

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

I was thinking about DU too at first, until I looked at the costs. DU is one of the biggest rip offs of all colleges in the USA. Their MS in Finance program, a 5 quarter (about one year) program, is $61,184-- not counting living expenses. That's actually more expensive than USC, than Washington U., then a bunch of other schools I was thinking of applying to. You're paying Ivy League-prices for a Tier 2 school. Hardly anybody outside of Colorado has ever heard of DU. Nobody outside of CO has ever heard of CU Denver either, but at least at UCD you're not paying an arm and a leg if you're an in-state student. DU likes to brag about their ranking in BusinessWeek magazine where they are top 10 for "Part Time MBA's." It's the Full Time MBA ranking that matters. I'm sure it's a good school, and if you're rich, I guess why not? But for people who aren't rich, I think it's a rip off!

This is what I was thinking too. I just can't really imagine DU competing with Ivy Leaguers any better than a CU-D grad, that is, assuming similar intelligence, interviewing skills, etc.

Is there any data out there on how much graduates make out of the 2 schools? A schools value isn't only determined on the cost side, but also by what you will be making when you leave.

[tfox]

vegaspilgrim,

You might also research the possibility of assistantships. Business school is a bit different than other grad programs because so many people do their MBA while working, and so usually pay out of pocket or through their company. Traditionally, however, grad school life is about finding a prof with research grant money and working for him/her through grad school. The thing about assistantships is that even though their pay is usually modest, they almost always include tuition waivers as part of the deal, so that levels the field somewhat between a DU (private) program and a CU-Denver (public).

[DenverAztec]

Forgot to mention that when I was there, the Aerospace, Criminal Justice, Political Science and Nursing programs were very popular.

A Masters from DU can be impressive to companies in state or those that have heard of it but what is really going to matter is your grades, experience in your applied field (if any), your interview skills and sadly, who you know in your industry. In my managerial position's aspect of hiring, training, managing and firing, I was more concerned that someone had a degree as it showed me they can learn, then I looked at there exposure to the field and then interview skills.

What would a response from me be like without photos. I was down the campus this summer shooting the historic and new buildings and those are below. The basic buildings are not that interesting and, well basic, so sorry I did not capture any.

The campus has three churches on it, one is still functioning as a Catholic Church and the monks feed lunch to the homeless everyday at noon. This is Saint Elizabeth’s and was the church for English and German speaking Catholics. Saint Cajetan’s was for the Spanish speaking Catholics, now used by the campus as an event center and office. And finally, the oldest still erect church in Colorado is the Temple Emmanuel, which is now an art gallery. Don’t have those pics with me but can post them later if interested.







Sporting events can cause parking issues for the campus, so again, light rail will be ideal. Classes are scheduled to start one week early, then take a break for a week due to the DNC, and resume when that is over. Not sure this is the best idea IMO.

View of Invesco Field at Mile High, it is about 3/4 a mile away:



Once the Tivoli Brewery (circa 1880), now owned by the Auraria campus and has multiple uses:






Proximity to Six Flags, which is where the Lightrail will stop:



Pepsi Center is on the northwest end and the main venue for the DNC, hence no classes in mid August:





Brooklyn’s Pub, which used to be Thirsty’s back in my day:



Proximity to downtown from the campus:



When the campus was built in the 70’s, whole neighborhoods were removed, and sadly, the oldest homes in Denver were demolished as part of Urban Renewal. However, one street on the edge of campus was saved, historic Ninth Street. The homes are all now offices and a few were added from other neighborhoods. Golda Mier’s home was relocated here.

[DenverAztec]

Originally Posted by tfox

vegaspilgrim,

You might also research the possibility of assistantships. Business school is a bit different than other grad programs because so many people do their MBA while working, and so usually pay out of pocket or through their company. Traditionally, however, grad school life is about finding a prof with research grant money and working for him/her through grad school. The thing about assistantships is that even though their pay is usually modest, they almost always include tuition waivers as part of the deal, so that levels the field somewhat between a DU (private) program and a CU-Denver (public).

This is a very good point Tfox! This would help with tuition and there is significant funding for research in the sciences, specifically Psychology which is popular at DU. Not sure how much funding for research is available for Accounting, but there must be some for general Economics?

[vegaspilgrim]

Originally Posted by tfox

vegaspilgrim,

You might also research the possibility of assistantships. Business school is a bit different than other grad programs because so many people do their MBA while working, and so usually pay out of pocket or through their company. Traditionally, however, grad school life is about finding a prof with research grant money and working for him/her through grad school. The thing about assistantships is that even though their pay is usually modest, they almost always include tuition waivers as part of the deal, so that levels the field somewhat between a DU (private) program and a CU-Denver (public).

Thanks for the suggestion, tfox, but what I'm applying to isn't really "grad school" and it's not even an "MBA" either, it's a 1-year, non-thesis, master in Accounting degree. Accounting is a very practical field; there's not a whole lot of "academic research" to be done. The MS in Accounting degree covers the same topics that are typically part of the junior and senior year undergrad accounting curriculum, just in higher detail. I do know what you're talking about-- I have a cousin who's getting a phd in Psychology and she has a tuition waver at her school. I'm planning on paying the costs out of pocket, which is why CU Denver looks like a good option to me. Who knows, some day I may desire to go for an MBA as well? For now though, my goal is simply to get the required education I need to sit for the CPA exam and doing it in a way that maximizes value and minimizes cost.

[WestCoDude]

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

Hi there! I'm originally from Denver, in my last year of undergrad at Arizona State U., and in a few months I'm going to be applying for graduate school business programs (not MBA) that I would start in 2008. I see that CU Denver has a degree program I'd be interested in, a MS in Finance. Of all the schools I could attend, CU Denver would be the most convenient since I can get in-state tuition and live at home, cutting living expenses (even commute to the Auraria campus with the light rail). What kind of reputation does CU Denver, and specificially their Business School have in the local business community? Is anybody here an alumni of that school? Is CU-Denver a good choice, or would I be better off going to CU-Boulder, DU, or out of state?

It's a good choice, Vegas. The great thing about UCD is that you can double-up and get an MS in accounting/finance/marketing while getting your MBA. If you don't have a lot of business experience...that might be wisest because most MBA students tend to have at least a couple of years of post-grad work experience. The MS will help you focus your MBA towards a specific field. Because it's so close with the Denver business community...I would say UCD is just as good a choice as CU.

DU's Daniels School of Business is ranked and very impressive. But you're paying...what...6 times as much?

Remember, as with most MBA programs, because of the focus of internships and post-grad recruiting, chances are you'll end up working in the same city/state as your school. If you want to end up in Denver....there's no better choice than UCD. I noticed in another forum that you were considering WashU here in St. Louis. As a St. Louisan, I have to tell you that you should seriously give this city a look. And WashU's Olin school of business is very well-regarded both here and nationally. If you can get it...and afford it....give it some thought.

But UCD would be a fine choice, should you decide that. And it definitely pays to be right next to downtown.

[vegaspilgrim]

Thanks, WestCoDude. You actually responded to the "outdated" version of my question; if you read my followup post I wrote last week, you'll see my plan is now to become an accountant and get a MS in Accounting, rather than finance. I didn't end up applying to Wash U, even though I'll agree it's a good school. I'm not pursuing an MBA degree at this time. No worries, though, I appreciate the advice!

Update here: in literally the last two days I've heard back from several other schools I applied to. I'm accepted at CU Denver, and if I choose to, within a few weeks I can start registering for classes this summer. This still seems like my #1 option for three reasons-- in-state tuition, location, and I have the option of living at home for one year. CU Denver's program consists mainly of night classes, so the idea would be I would do an internship or part time accounting job during the day. I got accepted to UNLV (University of Nevada, Las Vegas). As of this point in time, I doubt I want to go there, but if I wanted to I now can. University of Arizona I'm still waiting to hear back from.

Here's the biggie, though, I just got accepted into USC, and I just got done talking to the admissions staff and they hinted I could get a $15-20,000 scholarship. That sounds like a lot of money, but the program costs $50,000, and they estimate living expenses of living in LA for a year at $10,000 (which is probably WAY underestimated IMO). So let's say that with a generous scholarship, it would cost me $40,000. USC's program is a one-year program, and they're saying you have no time to do internships since it is so intensive. Career wise, USC seems like a good choice-- 74% of their graduates go into Big Four public accounting firms. On the phone at least, they make it out like most of their MS in Accounting students already have job offers for the next year even when they're just in the first semester of the program. Not that I couldn't get a great job coming out of CU Denver, but the USC thing sounds like a sure thing, at least they way they talk.

So now there's two issues here-- the cost-- I want to stay out of debt. By working, scraping up a little bit of savings, living at home for one year, I might very well be able to pull off going to CU Denver without even having to take out a student loan. If I went to USC, I'd have to take out a MAJOR loan, no way around it. But the real question now, is do I even want to go there? After thinking things out, I don't think I want to live in Los Angeles. I don't want to become a Californian. I miss Denver, and I was looking forward to moving back there.

Sure, I could go to USC for a year and then move back to Denver, but would that really happen? I'm afraid that with all that debt I may feel forced to take some high pressure job that I don't really want in LA. All of USC's recruiting is probably based on the southern California job market. I could end up getting stuck there for years for all I know. And while I'm sure the jobs in LA pay better, I've been on this forum long enough to know that when you factor in the cost of living and housing, it doesn't pay off, unless you're making well over $150k a year. And I'm sure there are accounting jobs that pay that much, partners at Big 4 CPA firms-- but is that what I want? I consider myself a hard worker, but I don't want to turn into an uptight, stressed out zombie, which is what I feel might happen if I go the USC/LA route. But would I be making a mistake to not go to USC? Or am I just buying in to their sales pitch? What do you guys think?

[Mike from back east]

Pilgrim...have you talked to accounting firms in Denver to ask them about these issues...they may prefer to hire local grads...

[vegaspilgrim]

Originally Posted by Mike from back east

Pilgrim...have you talked to accounting firms in Denver to ask them about these issues...they may prefer to hire local grads...

I definitely need to talk with some local firms, but I have a feeling you're right-- the local firms will probably look at the local college graduates first. The last thing I want to do is get locked out of my own home town! That's why I think USC is only worth it if I definitely want to live in Southern California-- and I'm pretty sure I don't. I'd rather live in Albuquerque, NM than LA. I love going down to San Diego to visit, but living there is an entire different ballgame. And LA is not the same thing as San Diego. I've been talking with my family, and they're making me feel guilty, like I'm a slacker or something if I were to choose Denver over a career in LA. I don't even know who to believe now!

[WestCoDude]

Whoops. Sorry about that, Vegas. I didn't read through the thread and so I didn't see the update.

As far as your new situation goes....

Look, if you really want to live in Denver (now....but most especially post-grad) and you think UCD can provide you a good education...go. Don't think twice about it. It sounds to me like you've already made your mind up--you want to go to Denver. It's just a matter of convincing yourself that you're not making a mistake turning down USC.

Here's what I tell grads and I think you might benefit from hearing this--Vegas, the old cliche is true--it's not what you know it's who you know. Your success in the field will be determined by your internships and connections made in the business community--not by the name of the school on your diploma. The reason that USC is so attractive is not that it's a stellar program--although that's true. It's mostly because its network of grads is so vast and strong and the connections with the SoCal business community are very tight. The difference between USC and UCD is that USC will make sure you are taken care of post-grad--you WILL get a good internship and job.

That doesn't mean that doesn't happen at UCD. It just means that whereas at USC you pay the money you'll get the job...at UCD you get what you put into it. If you can save the money by going to UCD, get a good internship, and work hard in your program to connect with the Denver business community, that will be your best bet.

Like Mike said...talk to local business people and accounting firms. They will tell you exactly what they will be looking for when you're out looking for employment. You can market a USC degree anywhere in America, you will be networked, and you will have a great time there. But if your heart is set on Denver and your'e willing to work your ass off...I think that would be a fine choice and you don't need to regret not going to USC.

Good luck!