Car Free living in Denver (Southglenn, Evans: fit in, amusement park, houses)

[FrozenShores]

Oh yeah, here's something that really excited me when I saw it. Some of these guys work for BikeDenver and took it upon themselves to blog about their daily commutes: another year of bike commuting: 6/21/09 - 6/28/09

[livecontent]

Originally Posted by callsnap

I am working in NYC at the moment, though not a native. I really enjoy car-free living here and would like to keep the lifestyle going. This thread is encouraging. Cheers to all of you, especially livecontent!
I'm single, late 20's female, and looking to live as a renter in a walkable neighborhood (a.k.a. original TOD) around the 30's professional crowd. I'd love to be able to walk to:
light rail
park (running trails)
gym
library
grocer
drugstore
bars/live music
restaurants
theatre
misc shops

That "wish" list is actually in order of preference for what I'd most like available or accessible in a neighborhood.
I'll be working in downtown Denver. I'm planning a visit in early August and a move for early Sept.
Please advise on any neighborhoods you recommend I explore, to continue car free living.

Well, thank you for renewing this thread. Car Free and Car less living is an important issue for these times. I think Frozenshores has given some good advice and to try to live downtown. The only problem I have with the Downtown Denver is the lack of Basic Shopping, especially a convenient grocery store. I am not talking about the overpriced gourmet markets and expensive luxury stores--I am talking about everyday grocery, hardware and clothes---The area could be better served by a King Soopers and a Walmart. There are are course a Safeway and a King Soopers, near Downtown, but we can use more and hopefully one in the Platte Valley.

The one issue of living near a commuter rail station or a frequent bus that is often overlooked is that all neighborhoods that are near any good public transit, in essence, become your neighborhood because you have easy accessibility to those resources nearby.

We do not have to duplicate the same stores and venues at every rail station or bus transit location, but they can be specialized. Downtown has the theatre and the large entertainment. Alameda Station has Albertson's Grocery and Sam's Club. Mineral Station has the Parks and the Bike Trail along the Platte to Chatfield Reservoir. County Line has the shopping Mall. With frequent fast buses that go to and from neighborhoods we can get to the shopping in Cherry Creek or the nice mix of stores down on Broadway. Stapelton has Walmart.

Also those who are fortunate enough to be able to ride a bicycle can easily extend their neighborhood for services. It is certainly helped by the ability to carry a bike on public transit. You can put your bike on a bus and extend your reach even to the Denver Mountain Parks near Evergreen or up Boulder Canyon near Nederland.

You want to ride a little farther out on the Great Plains. You can put your bike on the bus to Brighton and get to see some agriculture land and take the easy way back on the regional bus to Denver. I met a man in Loveland from Denver, last year, who put his bike on the Regional to Longmont and Biked his way, north, from the last bus stop on Route 66, on the north edge of Longmont.

Let us not forget the superhighway of bike travel, the Platte River Greenway--You can bike from Chatfield to Way up in Adams County and beyond. I have done it in segments, years ago. You also have all the intersecting super "bikeways" of Bear Creek, Cherry Creek, Clear Creek, High Line etc.

Ah, just a little thoughts....

Livecontent

[jeepbsn]

Thank you so much for posting this thread! I am moving to Denver in December after I graduate with my bachelor's in nursing. I have lived in the same small town in Missouri for 35 years and never had the courage to change anything about my life. I have become increasingly interested in re-evaluating my life (hence why I went back to school to get my degree), taking care of my environment and being a good role model for my children...this is why I am moving to Denver, I don't feel I can do those things if I don't step out of my comfort zone and into an area that I really desire to be. I am excited to learn about the alternative transportation measures and excited to take a trip out to Denver next month to interview and finalize a job. This post will be especially helpful as I look for places to live!! Thanks again!!

[FrozenShores]

Yeah, LiveContent, we could use a King Soopers in the Platte Valley. Vitamin Cottage doesn't exactly cut it even though they do have some affordable local produce, they aren't a full grocery store.

Well so far there are plans to put in a King Soopers at 20th and Chestnut along with the Union Station development. However far off that may be...

I wouldn't mind a Sunflower Farmer's market within walking distance of downtown either.

[livecontent]

It is very hard sell to get people out of their cars. I am now convinced that it cannot be done for most people.

It will work for the people are poor; the cannot afford a car. I do not see cars getting cheaper, so those people will always be car free.

People are also car free who cannot drive because of disability or age. I am hoping that we can at least get most people who are seniors and should not drive, better options. This is a severe safety concern and should be fully pursued. We need to provide more and frequent senior buses and call n' rides. These rides should be available without a day before reservation.

There are some people who choose not to drive and I do not think that any program of transit will increase significantly their number. They are already committed and will find a place to live and a place to work that does not involve driving.

It is the larger mass of people that will never be car free. These people have the money to afford driving and will never give up the convenience, the status or the addiction to the automobile. I do not think cost will change their behavior. They will find the funds. Inconvenience and traffic will never do it.

I think what will be necessary that large areas of the central core of the cities become totally car free. There will be no choice, you will have to find other means to get around. Denver has done it on 16th Street. We can extend the prohibition of cars to 17th and 15th, perhaps in small parts. I would like to see the whole area around the Civic Center Park become car free. It can be done. If they can do it in Times Square in New York City--we can do it here. Even parts of Broadway would be an interesting Car Free area.

I remember when the discussions of closing 16th Street. All the woes and the crying, the yelling---it will not work, traffic will be worse. Now about over 25 years latter, it is a success and has been extended. It was predicted that the department stores would close and they did, but they would have anyways because The Denver, May D&F, and Neusteters were dying. We would have had abandoned buildings. Now we have some new businesses, lofts and the expansion of the hotel on the May site.

I would like to other areas of the city and the suburbs close off the street to cars, just small areas little by little. I would hope that Arvada would do in on Olde Wadsworth in Olde Town. Tennyson Street in North Denver would be better car free; It is too congested with parking along the side of the road. Gaylord Street, South Pearl Street are other candidates. If we can close these streets for street fairs, why can we not close them permanently.

Are you new comes aware of ninth Street Park on the Auraria campus, downtown. When the campus was built and the neighborhood was destroyed, it was decided to keep one street intact with some surrounding churches and make the street a grass park, with the homes alongside. It now serves as offices for the campus and is a great place to relax on the campus. I had a chance, when I came to Denver, to go on a tour with a lady who grew up on the Street. She was over 80 years old. It was very heart warming, her description of this neighborhood of her youth.

You would not really know it exist, unless you had a need to go to the campus--but go and look
Auraria Higher Education Center
Auraria 9th Street Historic District - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Livecontent

[steveindenver]

It is very hard sell to get people out of their cars. I am now convinced that it cannot be done for most people.

I'm convinced maybe that is a good thing.

Things I can recall in just the past few days or riding.

The two stupid people riding side by side on their oh so cool but very slow (6-9mph max) old cruisers down 13th taking up an entire lane. See now, I sneak onto this stretch of 13th, between Colorado and York because it has nice new asphalt. I stick to the edge of the lane and I haul it up a notch to 20mph+ (slight uphill slog). As such my impact on traffic is slight, generally a wave or two will have to pass me. These two idiots without a care or a helmet in the world inconvenience everyone and make cars hate bikers even more.

The commuter asshats who run the 4 way stop at 16th ave and Humbolt (or Franklin?) when traffic is present. Thanks *******s. Everyone hates us more and drivers have no clue what to do when I stop -- so things get even more backed up.

The dumbass couple riding last night on the sidewalk on Wynkoop. Hey idiots THERE IS A ****ING BIKE LANE 5 FEET TO YOUR LEFT. When I almost hit you as I was turning from 18th onto Wynkoop, it is because you were on the ****ing sidewalk AND decided to just run the stop sign despite other traffic.

The family of 8 all on bikes in City Park all riding next to one another, weaving, stopping at random and my favorite coming at me on my side of the path and not even looking ahead. You are almost as bad as the people who walk their dogs with 20 foot leashes extended all the way out across the entire path but not quite as bad as the *******s dressed like clowns who pack up and run 25mph laps through Washington Park.

The guy last night, no helmet, no lights after dark riding on Quebec northbound over the hump after the interstate where construction has squeezed the lanes down to 2. Are you serious? How are you not dead yet?

The people in North Park Hill. We ride WITH the traffic folks.

On an unrelated topic, I have heard rumors that the police have been stopping riders at night who do not have a front and rear light and telling them to walk the rest of the way to their destination. If you plan on riding you may want to invest the 20 bucks it takes to get a cheap set of front and rears.

[Scott5280]

The premier walkable neighborhood for professionals in their 30's is Cherry Creek. My last address in Cherry Creek North had a 100% walk score..two grocery stores Whole Foods,Safeway..drug store Rite Aid..over 500 shops.restaurants,galleries...quick bike ride to Colorado Blvd. takes you to big box stores. the area access for biking.walking is second to nowhere in Denver.not even Lodo. five min to Cheesman Park,Wash Park,Congress Park..Two movie theatres within reach..The Esquire on 6th,and Cherry Creek Mall. Everything was so close I often left my car in the garage for days.More than twelve coffee shops in the area.

[livecontent]

Originally Posted by Scott5280

The premier walkable neighborhood for professionals in their 30's is Cherry Creek. My last address in Cherry Creek North had a 100% walk score..two grocery stores Whole Foods,Safeway..drug store Rite Aid..over 500 shops.restaurants,galleries...quick bike ride to Colorado Blvd. takes you to big box stores. the area access for biking.walking is second to nowhere in Denver.not even Lodo. five min to Cheesman Park,Wash Park,Congress Park..Two movie theatres within reach..The Esquire on 6th,and Cherry Creek Mall. Everything was so close I often left my car in the garage for days.More than twelve coffee shops in the area.

I totally agree that this area is one of the best for a walkable amenities. Fillmore north from 1st. is the blocked off to traffic, just to 2nd. This is what I am saying, why can we not block off little sections of streets, here and there in the city. They add a little ambience; a little place where people can gather.

It is easy to get to the area because there is an express bus from civic station that runs down 1st. You can really live here and be car free because there are multiple buses and you are close to Colorado with the frequent bus.

It is very expensive in the very heart of the area. But some of the fringe areas in Congress Park, near Colorado are a little more reasonable. But if you did not need a car, then you could put that big expense into housing and it can add to the affordability. I lived in NYC and that is how some people afford the city, they can forgo the cost of a automobile. That is something to think about, since in most cases, real estate appreciates and an automobile always depreciates in value.

I am looking forward to the redevelopment of the old medical campus site, near 9th and Colorado,just east of Congress Park. I think there are some fantastic bargains now, especially in High Rise Condos, in this neighborhood; Hale, and neighboring Montclair. These properties, I think will appreciate in value, as the redevelopment gets going. You can be assured that this area will prosper as it borders the very wealthy area of Hilltop to the South.

For seniors, there are some good options because many senior residences are built near hospitals. University Hospital has closed. The VA will be closed and will moving. But Rose Hospital is still there. In addition, the redevelopment plans call for some outpatient clinics to remain in the area.

Livecontent

[steveindenver]

The only problem with that area is that well .. it is Cherry Creek. Chocked full of peacocks living on credit.

That new Q BBQ place is pretty good though.

[chilicheesefries]

Originally Posted by livecontent

It is the larger mass of people that will never be car free. These people have the money to afford driving and will never give up the convenience, the status or the addiction to the automobile. I do not think cost will change their behavior. They will find the funds. Inconvenience and traffic will never do it.

I think what will be necessary that large areas of the central core of the cities become totally car free. There will be no choice, you will have to find other means to get around. Denver has done it on 16th Street. We can extend the prohibition of cars to 17th and 15th, perhaps in small parts. I would like to see the whole area around the Civic Center Park become car free. It can be done. If they can do it in Times Square in New York City--we can do it here. Even parts of Broadway would be an interesting Car Free area.

I think the idea of having large areas of central city cores would be workable. As long as the areas of employment remain there, the employees would find alternative means of transportation and the areas would still bustle. What I think you would find is that people who use automobiles would not adjust, but rather avoid the areas. I also think you would find that the majority of people (even car-lovers) would support having 'car-free' zones as long as they didn't interfere with the arterial street system - ie Broadway would not be a car free zone. But Old Towne Arvada as an example would be fine. Doing this to downtown Littleton or Englewood would not, as they're right on major streets. I think making the car-free zones a destination in and of themselves would be accepted, but making them a hassle along the way to other destinations would not.

Now as someone who rarely used public transportation, to add to the debate I wanted to talk about what would make me consider using it more:

1)Convenience of shopping. You had the example of each stop having something to offer and being part of the extended neighborhood. I look at my extended neighborhood as being where I can reach quickly - so everything, including what is offered at each railstop is still where I am able to drive to. To me it is more valuable to be within 2 miles of King Soopers, Safeway, Albertsons, Whole Foods and Sunflower Market than being able to easily take public transportation to one. I can drive to any of these within 5 minutes. I can walk 1.5 blocks, get on the bus and get to these as well. However, it will take longer, I'll be on a schedule and it will make it difficult to stop at more than one or to get too many items. No single light-rail stop tat I'm aware of has all of the major chains by it. If I want to drive to more than one, I can easily do that, put my bags in the trunk, go to the next and repeat. I might get 15 + bags of groceries. That can't be done easily on public transit. Also, with 2 babies who aren't walking yet, carrying ANYTHING on the bus or transit is difficult because I need to carry them in carriers or push them in a stroller so I can't push a cart at the same time, etc.

2)Work - I drive a car that gets 30+ mpg. For me driving 11 miles each way to work is a small expense. If gas prices go up significantly, that could change this. If I worked downtown and my company got me a pass, I would almost certainly use it to get to work. Where I work, taking the bus would take over 1 hour according to RTDs trip planner. I can drive in 15-20 minutes.

3)Quality of ride - when I do ride the light-rail it is to downtown and usually for an event. The cars are packed and it is difficult to get a place to sit. Couple that with having 2 babies (if I take them), and it isn't very good at all. Sometimes the cars are very hot and somethings they smell bad. Same with buses. If the quality of the riding experience was better, it would be more attractive.

4)Routes that go where I want to go - this would be difficult to fix as everybody has different places to go. If where you want to go is along a route, it is quick to get to, but if it's not and you have to transfer, it is less attractive to take transit there.

I think car-free living is a great attribute and respect anybody that is able to live that lifestyle. I just wanted to open for debate a few reasons it isn't for me right now and what could make it more of an option.