Car Free living in Denver (Lakewood, Southglenn: city hall, home, transfer)

[livecontent]

Originally Posted by steveindenver

The only problem with that area is that well .. it is Cherry Creek. Chocked full of peacocks living on credit.

That new Q BBQ place is pretty good though.

You always make me laugh. I just do not know if all these birds live on credit. There is got to be some long term residences, who have their homes paid, and live a simple luxurious life--compared to their peers.

I do have problems with many of the fluffy, overpriced stores. I cannot shop there but I can walk and window shop. Years, ago before the Cherry Creek Mall, the area was a little more reasonable for the lower class, like me. But, what can I say--it is still a very nice area to take a stroll; and as I said a quick bus trip or bike along Cherry Creek, from downtown.

Livecontent

[livecontent]

chilicheesefries,

You have made some good points--a rep to you. I totally forgot about hauling children on public transit because I do not have any. That is a big problem that really cannot be readily solved; especially, if you have two babies. One of the problems I do see is that they do not allow enough open space for strollers, walkers, weelchairs and grocery carts. Grocery Carts are nice for walkable neighborhoods. Though, in this area, I have only seen them used by the aged. In NYC and Europe they are common. I have a number of them but today I have a basket on my rollator walker.

You are totally correct, it is very difficult to shop, store after store with public transit. I could never do it with children along. I would have to drive. Public transit is many times only good for singles who live a relaxed lifestyle and the retired who have few schedules.

It is also very difficult to walk from a bus stop through a large parking lot to a big store. There is movement happening in opening smaller groceries and hardware that will fit into smaller urban neighborhoods. Walkable neighborhoods are not very good with giant big box stores that are parking lots apart. Cities are also implementing new zoning which only allows the parking in back of the store and brings the store front closer to the sidewalk and street.

I think with the smaller dense neighborhoods, you could shop with a child in a stroller. Today, I was at Sunflower Market in Highland Garden Village (The official name of the old Elitch Gardens Amusement Park), on west 38th. Housing is real close and I did see mothers with strollers buying groceries. You will also see that in the dense area of Stapelton Development.

Just as a note, I do enjoy the Sunflower Market on 38th. It has so much of good feeling with the older homes in West Highland and Berkeley, with Tennyson Street. It would be one of the places I would consider living because there is a senior apartment and a co-housing community. It is also not far from Sheridan where there is a King Soopers. The Development is so much on a smaller scale and fits nicely into the surrounding neighborhoods.

Livecontent

[livecontent]

Originally Posted by steveindenver

I'm convinced maybe that is a good thing.

Things I can recall in just the past few days or riding.

The two stupid people riding side by side on their oh so cool but very slow (6-9mph max) old cruisers down 13th taking up an entire lane. See now, I sneak onto this stretch of 13th, between Colorado and York because it has nice new asphalt. I stick to the edge of the lane and I haul it up a notch to 20mph+ (slight uphill slog). As such my impact on traffic is slight, generally a wave or two will have to pass me. These two idiots without a care or a helmet in the world inconvenience everyone and make cars hate bikers even more.

The commuter asshats who run the 4 way stop at 16th ave and Humbolt (or Franklin?) when traffic is present. Thanks *******s. Everyone hates us more and drivers have no clue what to do when I stop -- so things get even more backed up.

The dumbass couple riding last night on the sidewalk on Wynkoop. Hey idiots THERE IS A ****ING BIKE LANE 5 FEET TO YOUR LEFT. When I almost hit you as I was turning from 18th onto Wynkoop, it is because you were on the ****ing sidewalk AND decided to just run the stop sign despite other traffic.

The family of 8 all on bikes in City Park all riding next to one another, weaving, stopping at random and my favorite coming at me on my side of the path and not even looking ahead. You are almost as bad as the people who walk their dogs with 20 foot leashes extended all the way out across the entire path but not quite as bad as the *******s dressed like clowns who pack up and run 25mph laps through Washington Park.

The guy last night, no helmet, no lights after dark riding on Quebec northbound over the hump after the interstate where construction has squeezed the lanes down to 2. Are you serious? How are you not dead yet?

The people in North Park Hill. We ride WITH the traffic folks.

On an unrelated topic, I have heard rumors that the police have been stopping riders at night who do not have a front and rear light and telling them to walk the rest of the way to their destination. If you plan on riding you may want to invest the 20 bucks it takes to get a cheap set of front and rears.

Now, we have to deal with bicycle on bicycle rage. Once when I was cycling, I lost my balance and I ran into a guy in a wheelchair. I felt really guilty.

Today, I am the one, not yet in a chair but a rollator, that annoys some bicyclist. They want me out of the way. It would be a mistake for one of them to crash into me. For one thing, I am big solid hunk of New York lard (nothings worse or uglier) and my rollator is a reinforced bariatric steel chariot, that would do some mean job on a skinny bicyclist with a carbon bike.

Again you make me laugh relax and enjoy, so someone gets in your way, so what.

Livecontent

[steveindenver]

It's not folks in the way, it is bikers riding in a dangerous and often illegal manner that creates more bad feelings against all bikers.

Well okay I did throw the dog walkers in there.

To your earlier point about the bus with kids, we have always taken the bus with our kids, I look at it as an important skillset to have in life.

[chilicheesefries]

Originally Posted by livecontent

You have made some good points--a rep to you. I totally forgot about hauling children on public transit because I do not have any. That is a big problem that really cannot be readily solved; especially, if you have two babies. One of the problems I do see is that they do not allow enough open space for strollers, walkers, weelchairs and grocery carts. Grocery Carts are nice for walkable neighborhoods. Though, in this area, I have only seen them used by the aged. In NYC and Europe they are common. I have a number of them but today I have a basket on my rollator walker.

A lot of places aren't stroller-friendy, especially with double (or larger) stroller! When you mention grocery carts, do you mean from the grocery stores themselves (which is not legal to take from the lot) or personal shoppers? My grandmother had a personal shopper.

You are totally correct, it is very difficult to shop, store after store with public transit. I could never do it with children along. I would have to drive. Public transit is many times only good for singles who live a relaxed lifestyle and the retired who have few schedules.

It's possible, but speaking as to the convenience of it (or lack of) that's why we drive most places.

It is also very difficult to walk from a bus stop through a large parking lot to a big store. There is movement happening in opening smaller groceries and hardware that will fit into smaller urban neighborhoods. Walkable neighborhoods are not very good with giant big box stores that are parking lots apart. Cities are also implementing new zoning which only allows the parking in back of the store and brings the store front closer to the sidewalk and street.

I mentioned this in a previous post talking about the Riverpointe development in Sheridan with Costco & SuperTarget. They're about 1-2 city blocks apart, but the parking lot is huge and not pedestrian friendly at all!

I think with the smaller dense neighborhoods, you could shop with a child in a stroller. Today, I was at Sunflower Market in Highland Garden Village (The official name of the old Elitch Gardens Amusement Park), on west 38th. Housing is real close and I did see mothers with strollers buying groceries. You will also see that in the dense area of Stapelton Development.

Even today we can walk to many stores by taking nice leisurely strolls down residential streets not having to walk along busy streets, which we've done before. I have to go with my wife, though, so we can push a cart and a stroller. We're not in what is traditionally called a walkable neighborhood being on the fringe (about 1 mile or so from most things), however we're about 0.5 miles from a Whole Foods and the new Southglenn Library (which I'm very excited about!) and soon to be shops, restaurants and a theater.

[livecontent]

Chilicheesefries,

I mean the small foldable wired personal shoppers, granny carts, shopping trolley etc. I have taken on a bus and they work just great. I did use these in NYC and Europe. However, now, I have trouble walking so I have a big rollator/walker with a basket. The kids stare at me and I tell them it is a grownup stroller.

I like the Streets at Southglenn in Centennial at Arapahoe and University, near you. I think that is great little area. Nice older homes and parks. It is good attempt by Centennial to create a city center in that new town. I particularly like the smaller older ranches that you find in the neighborhoods along Arapahoe, west toward Broadway. I think ranches are the best for this type of climate and certainly one floor is good for the elderly.

Livecontent

[chilicheesefries]

Originally Posted by livecontent

I like the Streets at Southglenn in Centennial at Arapahoe and University, near you. I think that is great little area. Nice older homes and parks. It is good attempt by Centennial to create a city center in that new town. I particularly like the smaller older ranches that you find in the neighborhoods along Arapahoe, west toward Broadway. I think ranches are the best for this type of climate and certainly one floor is good for the elderly.

Livecontent

I'm excited for it to open. Southglenn Mall was dying, so it'll be fun to have something new and exciting. They tore down the old mall and then it sat for a few years as there was speculation on whether it would open. Sears and Macys never closed, then we got Best Buy, Dicks and Staples. Then Whole Foods. Soon Barnes & Noble and some restaurants. It's about 0.5 miles away, so it will be easy to walk. I'm excited about the library. It used to be right where Best Buy is now next to a Subway. Now it'll be closer again. It's going to be one of the new style ones mimicing a bookstore.

I like the combination of houses. I'm in a 2 story but my neighbors are ranch and tri-level. It's quite peaceful.

Again, for our purposes everything is a very short drive away, or even at the fringe of walking area.

[woob]

this is my favorite thread now that i've moved into my new baker home and have internet access once again, here are a few thoughts-

livecontent- your idea of car free zones will happen slowly. in new york where i have just come from there is a city program dedicated towards converting road space into public plazas. times square is the most high profile, but there are dozens being created in traditionally high traffic areas
NYCDOT - NYC Plaza Program. Denver has lots of wide roads and funky intersections which would lend themselves to similiar redesigns.

majority of people (even car-lovers) would support having 'car-free' zones as long as they didn't interfere with the arterial street system - ie Broadway would not be a car free zone

It seems that even during rush hour the traffic on south broadway where I now live is not that bad. With the light rail running south, there is less need for a high volume "arterial" for commuters. This is a retail and residential area which would benefit tremendously from expending pedestrian and plaza space. I would love to see a lane or two changed over to green space, cafes, bike lanes, etc.

The two stupid people riding side by side on their oh so cool but very slow (6-9mph max) old cruisers down 13th taking up an entire lane

Steve, that was probably me and my wife Actually our schwinn's just arrived on the truck today, but that is how we ride. If there is no bike lane and there is more than one lane of traffic allowing for passing, I will "take the lane" and ride in the center rather than skirt the edge of the road where i am more likely to get doored and less likely to be visible to speeding motorists.

[chilicheesefries]

Originally Posted by woob

It seems that even during rush hour the traffic on south broadway where I now live is not that bad. With the light rail running south, there is less need for a high volume "arterial" for commuters. This is a retail and residential area which would benefit tremendously from expending pedestrian and plaza space. I would love to see a lane or two changed over to green space, cafes, bike lanes, etc.

Part of the reason traffic isn't so bad is because Broadway is one of the streets where the city got it right and traffic flows pretty well because the lights are timed.

Light rail is not going to have that much of an impact as to make the major arterials from the south area (University, Broadway, Santa Fe) obselete. Traffic counts show weekday traffic on Broadway decreasing going south but still being over 15,000 each way at Evans from 35,000 at Alameda. University carries ~20,000 at Jewell just north of Evans. The only effect closing Broadway would have would be to shift traffic to streets that are more congested already. Logan street with ~5,000 cars/day would get much more busy.

The best candidates for car-free zones are those that are not arterials that feed from the region, not just the city. Pearl Street shopping district would be a great one. Then Tennyson, etc.

[steveindenver]

I will "take the lane" and ride in the center rather than skirt the edge of the road where i am more likely to get doored and less likely to be visible to speeding motorists.

Thing is, there was a dedicated bike lane 2 or 3 blocks over in one direction and a dedicated route one block the other way. The city has tons of routes and lanes for bikes, there is no reason to ride on a 3 lane wide one way busy street if you are not going to be close to the speed limit.

Visit a bike store, get a map, there are great routes almost everywhere with the exception of crossing I-25 which is limited and generally not fun (the bridge on 8th ave littered with glass anyone?).