Car Free living in Denver (Lakewood, Arvada: 2013, costs, storage locker)
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I don't get how anyone thinks the bus or lite rail system are more GREEN...with the exception of a few peak hours those busses and rails are practically empty....an H1 Hummer is more green than a bus with three people in it! Plus the HUMMER stops running when you get to where you're going!
Nonsense. I have an erratic work schedule and I ride rail frequently (and the bus occasionally.) Aside from some late weeknights and the occasional slow afternoon, the trains are quite well used. Some days they are packed to standing room only (and not even that), while others have at least one passenger in every seat. I typically ride from around Yale to Downtown, so I can't speak for ridership much beyond that, but most trains have a decent number of riders by the time they arrive at my station.
In addition you fail to take into account buses running on alternative fuel sources (not all, but some, do) and the shear volume of space being taken up on the road by comparison to the numerous large cars carrying only a driver and no passengers.
Cars have their place in our system, but I disagree with your assertion that Denver's transit system is so poorly used that it is less environmentally friendly than driving a large, heavy vehicle on roadways using only fossil fuel and typically carrying fewer than three people. Indeed, most modes of transit play an important part in getting people in a city from point A to point B.
The buses get approximately 4.5 MPG and annually miles driven and annual ridership equals 2.34 riders per mile.
If a car gets 30MPG it costs .033 gallons to move that person 1 mile.
It takes the bus .095 gallons to move each person 1 mile
It costs almost three times more fuel to move each person 1 mile via bus than it does by car...factor in carpools and cars win even more, factor in convenience cars win again, factor in lost productivity due to waiting...car wins again!
I will continue to use this thread to help people who absolutely have the need to use public transit because of age or disability.
I will continue to use this thread to help people who cannot afford to own a car and need public transit.
I will continue to use this thread to help people who have decided to not own a car or have decided to use their cars less.
I will continue to use this thread to help people who know that public transit is one the most important factor that have made possible the great cities of the world that we consider the best places to live.
I will continue to use this thread to help move progress forward to a more sustainable future.
Saying all that I will continue to ignore all these useless posts that will attempt to hinder my goal on this thread.
I want to discuss Access-a-Ride http://www.rtd-denver.com/accessARide.shtml (broken link) This is the bus that provides service for people with disabilities that cannot use the buses and rail because they cannot get to their stops for many reasons that reduce their mobility.
There is a very important issue for the disabled, have a family member who is disabled or in the future will become older (we all will) and cannot walk to a transit stops. That issue is you must live within 3/4 mile of a fixed route transit system, either bus or rail. This is very strict rule for a number of funding and ADA issues. So be aware when you move to Denver or absolutely need this service to be picked up at your home or be taken to your destination either a job or a medical appointment--make sure all is within this boundary. On RTD maps it shows purple line with ADA and a wheelchair symbol--that is the boundary. This can be used for personal trips such as shopping, visiting people, going to any event or any destination.
Access-a-Ride is entirely different program than the Special Discount Cards that give reduced fares and passes to seniors, the disabled and students. That program and qualifications is described at http://www.rtd-denver.com/DiscountFares.shtml
Access-a Ride is for the more severe disabled who cannot ambulate to a transit stop for some or all situations. I do want to point out that being a senior and if you have difficult walking, that can qualify for Access-a-Ride. The qualifications are described in the user guide and it requires a personal interview and assessment at the Eastern Seals office, which is contracted by RTD to do this work.
Access-a-Ride recipients have some other benefits that go with this service. RTD knows that a disabled person can at some times get to a stop because their condition is variable or the stop is more accessible. So to reduce the need and the demand on the disability vans, the recipients can use any bus or rail for free. Access-a-Ride van service is not free and does cost twice the normal fare. In addition, there is limited reduced cab service for short immediate trips, as Access-a-Ride is a reservation service, one day ahead.
As a personal note, I am qualified for Access-a-Ride. The service has helped me much because my health has deteriorated to a point where it is difficult for me to walk the short distance about 1/3 mile to my local bus stop, which I did for years. I have trouble with some buses, such as regional buses, because of the steps to access the bus but I can use the lift to get on these buses. In addition, I do have trouble driving at times.
I try not to use the service too much because I do not want to put too much demands on the system. The service is more stressed at rush hours because many disabled still work and they can use the system everyday. Also, there are many disabled who use it to get to dialysis centers. There are many that need to get to disabled and senior day care centers. It is used heavily for medical appointments because obviously the disabled have more medical needs. Understand that the service is not for one disabled alone but will pick up/return many to efficiently use the service and that can take much time to get to your destination.
Access-a-Ride has given freedom to the disabled community and has freed us from dependence of others to drive us to destinations. It has also got us out of the house and not be so isolated.
Livecontent
Last edited by livecontent; 11-05-2011 at 10:13 AM..
The buses get approximately 4.5 MPG and annually miles driven and annual ridership equals 2.34 riders per mile.
If a car gets 30MPG it costs .033 gallons to move that person 1 mile.
It takes the bus .095 gallons to move each person 1 mile
It costs almost three times more fuel to move each person 1 mile via bus than it does by car...factor in carpools and cars win even more, factor in convenience cars win again, factor in lost productivity due to waiting...car wins again!
Sources, please.
I'd be curious to see the qualifiers on that information (2.34 riders per mile...where is this? what year was this recorded?) I'd also be curious to see how many vehicles (especially those HUMMERS) are getting 30MPG on average. And if it is simple cost we are trying to account for, we have to add in maintenance costs as well as the cost to build infrastructure.
Never mind the whole (important) detail that livecontent continues trying to stress, which is that not everyone has a car accessible...due to physical circumstances or money. Growing up, I could not afford a car (not just buying one, but the cost of maintaining one) so I "pulled myself up by my bootstraps", took the bus, got a job, and used the bus (and a bike I could later afford) to handle my commute. Without that option, I may not have been able to acquire that job.
One more thing...I now spend that "time waiting" that you attribute to lost productivity...being productive. I can review email, strategies and other things while on the bus train that I'm too distracted to deal with in a car. On the way home I'm free to enjoy my commute to read, answer personal email on my phone, chat with friends, or even watch a movie if I want. And I don't have to stress about traffic while doing it. Hardly lost productivity.
The numbers come from RTD's own site...look them up.... I never said Hummers get 30MPG I said they're STILL more economical...an '06 Hummer gets 11-15MPG which still beats the bus per person mile. I used an H1 Hummer as an extreme example...most newer cars especially economy cars are around 30MPG which is what one would get IF they're concerned about fuel/environment. Don't even get me started on electric hybrids and how bad THEY are for the environment!
Paper/plastic or reusable canvas...yup! Plastic wins the environmental footprint game...
Most of the "green" stuff is worse than what they supposedly replace....it has nothing to do with saving energy or the environment...most of it is marketing scams because they know people just want to "feel" like they make a difference...not really look into it!
Well, onward with my goal of providing information and I hold my tongue to reply to some posts that are....well, I will leave my opinions on hold for now.
To live car fee or car less one must choose location that not only have good public transportation but good essential stores nearby. It is important that the stores provide the basic needs of everyday life that would be a grocery, a full line retail, a hardware; not only some overpriced fluff stores that only serve a limited need to some, and no need for many. Quick Access to Medical care is a big plus.
Saying all that I can talk about many neighborhoods that are served by bus that can be more of a complete neighborhood with close walkable stores. However, what I want to talk about on this post is the best rail station in the Denver area.
I have been to all the rail station, got off and looked around and are familiar with them. These are my opinions, take them or leave them. I will talk about other stations, on other posts, because this stations is so outstanding that that I have to write more, and the post will be to long.
The best rail station is the Englewood Station on the Southwest Line That is because it has a Grocery,King Soopers, a Walmart and a vast assortment of other shops, all with walkable distance. There are great shops on Broadway in walkable neighborhood which was the original main street of Englewood. It has a wonderful Army and Navy Store and the biggest and best store for us big and tall—Kaufmans.
The Englewood Library is right at the edge of the stop. This area is the first Transit Oriented Development (TOD) built in Denver on the site of the old Cinderella City Mall. It has many new apartment but expensive on the site, right next to the station but many reasonable all around Englewood.
It has numerous feeder buses that run late and often, in addition the Broadway Bus, Route 0, is a main bus that runs, almost 24 hrs. and can take you through many good neighborhoods, like Baker to the north and to Downtown, for additional shopping, with newer stores south on Broadway toward Highland Ranch, where the Route 0 ends.
Also the Englewood station is served by a free shuttle, called the ART City of Englewood : art Circulator Shuttle that runs through Englewood, past Swedish Hospital, medical Clinics and many Senior Centers and a Senior Recreation Center.
There is also a Safeway nearby. Englewood is very small and dense, so that the whole city is well served by public transit. It is really an ideal place for Seniors to live with the good medical Access to Swedish. Living near this area, that is Hampden and Broadway, means you will never have to own a car and can walk or take a short bus ride to all services and amenities that is stores, groceries and medical services. This old established neighborhood really reminds me of some old neighborhoods in NYC and Jersey with a good selection of long established shops and good public transit.
Livecontent, great posts on this thread! While it saddens me to say, I'm no longer living in Denver but I remember reading this thread back in late 2009 before moving out there and spending just about all of 2010 in south Denver. I chose to live in Englewood as I was looking for a place that would allow me to function well without a car. I couldn't have been happier with my choice. I was able to find a very affordable apartment right near Swedish hospital off of Grant and Girard . Between the 0 bus route, the light rail, and the wonderful free ART shuttle service, I was able to live without a car perfectly! It's a very walkable area as well with just about anything one would want/need within a short walking distance. Anyone wanting to live in an area without having to have/rely on a vehicle, I strongly recommend the city-center area of Englewood as it worked out great for me. Thank you Livecontent for all of your advice in this thread. It helped me a paint a picture of the area and I really enjoyed my time in this part of Englewood as it made life quite easy and very affordable while also only being 15-20 minutes from downtown Denver.
The numbers come from RTD's own site...look them up.... I never said Hummers get 30MPG I said they're STILL more economical...an '06 Hummer gets 11-15MPG which still beats the bus per person mile. I used an H1 Hummer as an extreme example...most newer cars especially economy cars are around 30MPG which is what one would get IF they're concerned about fuel/environment. Don't even get me started on electric hybrids and how bad THEY are for the environment!
Paper/plastic or reusable canvas...yup! Plastic wins the environmental footprint game...
Most of the "green" stuff is worse than what they supposedly replace....it has nothing to do with saving energy or the environment...most of it is marketing scams because they know people just want to "feel" like they make a difference...not really look into it!
I looked. I did not find those figures.
The sudden aside about plastic (which really should be another thread entirely) is also something I did not find figures for supporting your supposition. Your rhetoric is excellent, but your sourcing of facts has something to be desired.
Nevertheless, I still welcome links that support your figures regarding public transit usage. I have read and researched so much information to the contrary of what you are saying that it is difficult for me to accept an alternative viewpoint without reliable data and it's sources to back it up.
Annual boardings: 97,180,210
Annual regular fixed-route service miles operated, including light rail: 41,449,988 (January 2011 service levels annualized)
Q:Why don't you use small buses during low ridership periods of the day?
A:The major cost of operating a bus is the driver (about 52%). The difference for fuel consumption (about 5% of the cost) is 5.6 miles per gallon for a 30' bus, 4.5 mpg for a 40' bus and 3.6 mpg for a 60' articulated bus. Whenever possible RTD uses the right-sized bus; however, the time consumed pulling buses in and out of the garage often more than offsets other cost factors.
~I took the mid range of 4.5MPG
Still my basic point is although convenient for some...like many other things...it ISN'T very green...or at least not as green as people think!
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