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With respect, I cry for you--you are not using your perception to see, you are not using your understanding to understand, but I know that you have the intellect to think--think, understand, perceive then you will know what I am saying.
I hear what you are saying, but that doesn't mean that I have any (or should have any) desire to go hop a RTD bus. I'd be more likely to hop the light rail, but only in certain situations. That's just my preference. You are welcome to yours.
Great Post, LiveContent! Thanks for spending the time to give us all the great tips and insight on mass transit. I found it very informative!
Thank you for your comments. Perhaps you can help me understand. I was talking to a neighbor who is selling a house 1/4 mile from a new commuter rail station. The listing does not indicate that the house is near a new station. The station would not be completed until 2015. The neighbor did not know about the station and contacted her real estate agent. The neighbor got back to me and said that the agent did not know about the station. In addition the agent felt it would not effect the value because it would not be built unitil 2015.
I thought this was short-sited and ignorant. I would assume that agents would be aware of all changes with the mass transit. Also , I pointed out to the neighbor that even though the value may not change this far out from construction, the buyer will benefit, when the station is built, and this would be an incentive for him to purchase, In addition, even if the buyer was planning to sell the home before 2015, he would still benefit because the closer it gets to completion then the value would then would start to be evident and a subsequent buyer would have an incentive, knowing that they would achieve an increase in value when the station is complete.
She told me that the agent was a relative.
Yet, I still all these listings with homes within a 1/4-1/2 mile from a proposed station and nothing is said about it. Why????
I actually bought mine in part because of its proximity to a future Fastracks station and the fact I plan on being there long enough to potentially reap economic rewards for it.
However, it's important to remember that just because it's proposed, there's money behind it because voters approved it, and there's a plan, doesn't mean it will have an enormously positive economic effect, like it has in many other cities with good mass transit... let alone that it'll actually be built at that location. It doesn't help that currently the vast majority of people in Denver drive and rarely if ever use RTD, nor that the average amount of time people own a house is about 3-5 years. So agents don't know or care about it.
I actually bought mine in part because of its proximity to a future Fastracks station and the fact I plan on being there long enough to potentially reap economic rewards for it.
However, it's important to remember that just because it's proposed, there's money behind it because voters approved it, and there's a plan, doesn't mean it will have an enormously positive economic effect, like it has in many other cities with good mass transit... let alone that it'll actually be built at that location. It doesn't help that currently the vast majority of people in Denver drive and rarely if ever use RTD, nor that the average amount of time people own a house is about 3-5 years. So agents don't know or care about it.
It does not matter if the average time to own a house is short. It is the perception that value will be created that can be a sales incentive--and I see no reason to use it in advertising and they can pass on that perception to the next buyer, even before the station is built.
If it is proposed, that is enough to advertise, at the beginning: "proposed commuter station", final approval and under construction: "commuter station under construction" , near to open "soon to open commuter rail station" all these phrase modify "neaby within ___miles". Why would that not hurt to say that?? Unless you live right across the street, it is perceived as value. Real Estate valuation and costs are many cases a perception of value.
Yes, it has had economic impact on homes near the station in all cities--that is enough to make a prediction that the value would increase. Obviously, either your are a fool or you are smart person because you have bought because of that potential--I would call you smart.
Mass Transit does help the majority of people who live here, even though they do not use mass transit:
1. There are people because of income, disability, age and desire do own a car or drive less because of these reasons--benefit.
2. By allowing a segment of the population to have alternate means of transportation, that give more room to the people who need or want to drive---benefit
3. By getting off the roads the elderly and infirmed--that gives everybody safer roads--benefit
4. Less cars, less energy used to move a body, less pollution, better environment for all---benefit
5. It has been shown that good public transit encourages employers to move into the area so they have a better ability to attract workers--benefit
5. It encourages redevelopment in old tired depressed neighborhoods with Transit Oriented Development---Look Around Denver, it has been done---benefit.
Many of these benefits cannot be measured with simple cost studies, just as the real cost of car ownership cannot be totally measured without looking at the cost to the environment, cost for infrastructure, and cost to the quality of life.
I have gone to numerous planning meetings on the commuter rail. I have read reports and the economic analysis of the impact in other cities. It is a great move for Colorado, is needed for the future. The planning, EIS and construction starts are on target. If you cannot see it, I am not going to convince you. However, enough people of Colorado has perceived the benefits to make the funds available. Fastracks has been built; It is being built and It will be built. Fastracks is not only about commuter rail, it is funding an intermodal system and parts have already been built--you do not know which parts??? well, you have to read and find out, after all it is your money.
The press you read is just the normal problems that occur in building such a large and expansive system and they should be discussed. Modifications will be made, changes will occur, that is a result of a thinking and interacting community. These arguments and cost issues have been hashed in other cities and the systems were built. If you have been here long enough to remember the arguments over costs and need for the airport--you will understand.
So on with it--I am trying to show how people can use the existing public transit system. If you do not use it, that is your choice but you will benefit and your are going to pay for it; I thank you for your money and let us get out of your way on the highway. We welcome you to join in the discussion and planning--after all it is your money.
Oberon, I think I get a little too passionate on this subject--I have been going to meetings, and working to extend the RTD for 25 years. Sometimes, I get tired of hearing myself. Thanks for the comment
MobyLL, Thanks for the encouragement! Reputation??? If you only Knew my real reputation.
livecontent, I would love to see a really good transportation infrastructure in the area. Something along the lines of, in addition to Fastracks:
1) I-70 mountain corridor rail to Grand Junction
2) Regional rail from Cheyenne to El Paso, Texas via Fort Collins, Denver, Colorado Springs, Pueblo, Santa Fe, and Albuquerque. This could potentially be used for longer-distance commutes within the Denver area too.
3) Cross-town rail, or at least dedicated mass transit routes. Preferential treatment for buses could work well enough. Could be accomplished by making more fully-grade separated interchanges at major intersections and changing/adding one lane each direction to HOV/toll lanes, on major roads. That would dramatically improve bus service and still allow appropriate private vehicles (thus sharing the cost).
#1 and #2 are being addressed by the Ranger Xpress project. Eagle County (home of Vail etc.) is also working towards having a county-wide rail network, which will make getting around there much easier. I hope it happens, because I-70 in the winter is absolutely terrible, and it's gonna have an effect on our tourism industry sooner rather than later.
livecontent, I would love to see a really good transportation infrastructure in the area. Something along the lines of, in addition to Fastracks:
1) I-70 mountain corridor rail to Grand Junction
2) Regional rail from Cheyenne to El Paso, Texas via Fort Collins, Denver, Colorado Springs, Pueblo, Santa Fe, and Albuquerque. This could potentially be used for longer-distance commutes within the Denver area too.
3) Cross-town rail, or at least dedicated mass transit routes. Preferential treatment for buses could work well enough. Could be accomplished by making more fully-grade separated interchanges at major intersections and changing/adding one lane each direction to HOV/toll lanes, on major roads. That would dramatically improve bus service and still allow appropriate private vehicles (thus sharing the cost).
#1 and #2 are being addressed by the Ranger Xpress project. Eagle County (home of Vail etc.) is also working towards having a county-wide rail network, which will make getting around there much easier. I hope it happens, because I-70 in the winter is absolutely terrible, and it's gonna have an effect on our tourism industry sooner rather than later.
Yes, these are good ideas under consideration. I think that rail service will be built to Grand Junction but it may not be the priority in rail in the future. There will be minimal regional rail in the Mountains and the funds will have to come from the tourist industry or local taxes and I do not think the state has the funds and the federal government will not give priority funding to supplement a tourist industry.
I think rail will move to very high-speed rail, to supplement air travel in this country and will replace many air routes. However, because of the problems of the central mountains, these high speed trains will not go through Denver, east to west. The east and west routes will be through Through Arizona because of population and a far distant future through Wyoming.
North to South High Speed Rails will be built east of Denver. There is a very strong proposal to move all commercial rail traffic east, and free up the Platt Valley, and this I think will be done in 30-35 years. High Speed trains will be the predominate means of national travel in 50-75 years, especially regional travel.
As far as cross town rail, that is a start with the West Line, which has started construction and the Gold Line going through Arvada. West Line will be Light Rail and the Gold Line will be heavy rail Electric Motorized Units (EMU). These Lines are being contemplated to be extended in the next round of commuter lines, starting in 2035-2040, that is my guess. In addition BRT (Bus Rapid Transit) in HOV Lanes along I-70 are being thought about a little but are less of a priority then rail. I do not think they will be built.
BRT Line along I-25 north are more of a possibility, complementing the North Line to 160 Avenue. This Line will also be extended in the future and will take in Brighton. The Right of Way is already on the planning maps.. This will be one the first of any rail extension after Fastracks, I see it at 2025-2030 start, my prediction.
The BRT Line along I-36 to Boulder is now being constructed to more efficiently use the HOV and extend it. That is why the Superior and Church Ranch points for pickup and departure have been redesigned and built.
The Northwest Commuter Line is being built to the southern edge of Longmont under Fastracks and will be completed in 2016. This will be heavy rail, Diesel Motorized Unit (DMU). Fort Collins, Loveland and Greeley are attempting to form their own transportation district and I see that this line will extend to Fort Collins. I think that line will start being built in 2030-2035. However, we will see Bus connection to Fort Collins, just like FREX to Colorado Springs at the time of completion of Fastracks in 2016 or earlier.
So most of us will not be here to see most of this improvement. and we will all be gone when any passenger trains are in the Mountains.
These are all my crystal ball projections from what I have been reading--I may be wrong--but I may never know.
I doubt it will take that long, but perhaps you're right. Sadly, few people seem to consider mass transit as a means of improving efficiency & reducing overall energy use. Instead it's just focus on "be green go yellow", E85 blah blah blah. We should be increasing efficiency first, then work on alternate supply mechanisms. My European car already gets 40+ mpg and it's not a hybrid, why can't American cars do that?
What problems with the mountains are you talking about? There are train technologies capable of climbing the grades & fitting in the narrow valleys alongside I-70 (primarily maglev). You're probably right about funds though. But the state is obligated to provide at least some of them, since the tourism industry generates a significant portion of its tax revenues and provides for the living and qualiy of life of many Colorado residents.
As far as BRT is concerned, I'm afraid it costs more in the long run due to higher operational costs. It's just more efficient to have 1 train driver carry 500 passengers (3 car train) than it is to have 1 bus driver carry 60-80 passengers. Of course, it does have the advantage of shared infrastructure with private vehicles and that can provide a mechanism to increase the efficiency of private vehicles on a per passenger mile basis (i.e. HOV).
I think QOL in Colorado is going to go down over the next decade due to congestion, see a significant boost due to Fastracks, then decline again until the 3 mass transit projects I mentioned are completed. Doesn't matter how many freeway or arterial lanes we build; they will be filled long before they are done, unlike any rail system that gets built.
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Thanks for the comment
and we will all be gone when any passenger trains are in the Mountains.
