Car Free living in Denver (Boulder, Littleton: apartment, rental, hotel)

[oberon]

Thanks for your advocacy.

[MobyLL]

Hey livecontent, the only problem i have with what you post is this:

You must spread some Reputation around before giving it to livecontent again.

I applaud you for taking steps to live what you believe.

[livecontent]

Oberon, I think I get a little too passionate on this subject--I have been going to meetings, and working to extend the RTD for 25 years. Sometimes, I get tired of hearing myself. Thanks for the comment


MobyLL, Thanks for the encouragement! Reputation??? If you only Knew my real reputation.

[oberon]

livecontent, I would love to see a really good transportation infrastructure in the area. Something along the lines of, in addition to Fastracks:

1) I-70 mountain corridor rail to Grand Junction
2) Regional rail from Cheyenne to El Paso, Texas via Fort Collins, Denver, Colorado Springs, Pueblo, Santa Fe, and Albuquerque. This could potentially be used for longer-distance commutes within the Denver area too.
3) Cross-town rail, or at least dedicated mass transit routes. Preferential treatment for buses could work well enough. Could be accomplished by making more fully-grade separated interchanges at major intersections and changing/adding one lane each direction to HOV/toll lanes, on major roads. That would dramatically improve bus service and still allow appropriate private vehicles (thus sharing the cost).

#1 and #2 are being addressed by the Ranger Xpress project. Eagle County (home of Vail etc.) is also working towards having a county-wide rail network, which will make getting around there much easier. I hope it happens, because I-70 in the winter is absolutely terrible, and it's gonna have an effect on our tourism industry sooner rather than later.

[livecontent]

Originally Posted by oberon

livecontent, I would love to see a really good transportation infrastructure in the area. Something along the lines of, in addition to Fastracks:

1) I-70 mountain corridor rail to Grand Junction
2) Regional rail from Cheyenne to El Paso, Texas via Fort Collins, Denver, Colorado Springs, Pueblo, Santa Fe, and Albuquerque. This could potentially be used for longer-distance commutes within the Denver area too.
3) Cross-town rail, or at least dedicated mass transit routes. Preferential treatment for buses could work well enough. Could be accomplished by making more fully-grade separated interchanges at major intersections and changing/adding one lane each direction to HOV/toll lanes, on major roads. That would dramatically improve bus service and still allow appropriate private vehicles (thus sharing the cost).

#1 and #2 are being addressed by the Ranger Xpress project. Eagle County (home of Vail etc.) is also working towards having a county-wide rail network, which will make getting around there much easier. I hope it happens, because I-70 in the winter is absolutely terrible, and it's gonna have an effect on our tourism industry sooner rather than later.

Yes, these are good ideas under consideration. I think that rail service will be built to Grand Junction but it may not be the priority in rail in the future. There will be minimal regional rail in the Mountains and the funds will have to come from the tourist industry or local taxes and I do not think the state has the funds and the federal government will not give priority funding to supplement a tourist industry.

I think rail will move to very high-speed rail, to supplement air travel in this country and will replace many air routes. However, because of the problems of the central mountains, these high speed trains will not go through Denver, east to west. The east and west routes will be through Through Arizona because of population and a far distant future through Wyoming.

North to South High Speed Rails will be built east of Denver. There is a very strong proposal to move all commercial rail traffic east, and free up the Platt Valley, and this I think will be done in 30-35 years. High Speed trains will be the predominate means of national travel in 50-75 years, especially regional travel.

As far as cross town rail, that is a start with the West Line, which has started construction and the Gold Line going through Arvada. West Line will be Light Rail and the Gold Line will be heavy rail Electric Motorized Units (EMU). These Lines are being contemplated to be extended in the next round of commuter lines, starting in 2035-2040, that is my guess. In addition BRT (Bus Rapid Transit) in HOV Lanes along I-70 are being thought about a little but are less of a priority then rail. I do not think they will be built.

BRT Line along I-25 north are more of a possibility, complementing the North Line to 160 Avenue. This Line will also be extended in the future and will take in Brighton. The Right of Way is already on the planning maps.. This will be one the first of any rail extension after Fastracks, I see it at 2025-2030 start, my prediction.

The BRT Line along I-36 to Boulder is now being constructed to more efficiently use the HOV and extend it. That is why the Superior and Church Ranch points for pickup and departure have been redesigned and built.

The Northwest Commuter Line is being built to the southern edge of Longmont under Fastracks and will be completed in 2016. This will be heavy rail, Diesel Motorized Unit (DMU). Fort Collins, Loveland and Greeley are attempting to form their own transportation district and I see that this line will extend to Fort Collins. I think that line will start being built in 2030-2035. However, we will see Bus connection to Fort Collins, just like FREX to Colorado Springs at the time of completion of Fastracks in 2016 or earlier.

So most of us will not be here to see most of this improvement. and we will all be gone when any passenger trains are in the Mountains.

These are all my crystal ball projections from what I have been reading--I may be wrong--but I may never know.

[oberon]

I doubt it will take that long, but perhaps you're right. Sadly, few people seem to consider mass transit as a means of improving efficiency & reducing overall energy use. Instead it's just focus on "be green go yellow", E85 blah blah blah. We should be increasing efficiency first, then work on alternate supply mechanisms. My European car already gets 40+ mpg and it's not a hybrid, why can't American cars do that?

What problems with the mountains are you talking about? There are train technologies capable of climbing the grades & fitting in the narrow valleys alongside I-70 (primarily maglev). You're probably right about funds though. But the state is obligated to provide at least some of them, since the tourism industry generates a significant portion of its tax revenues and provides for the living and qualiy of life of many Colorado residents.

As far as BRT is concerned, I'm afraid it costs more in the long run due to higher operational costs. It's just more efficient to have 1 train driver carry 500 passengers (3 car train) than it is to have 1 bus driver carry 60-80 passengers. Of course, it does have the advantage of shared infrastructure with private vehicles and that can provide a mechanism to increase the efficiency of private vehicles on a per passenger mile basis (i.e. HOV).

I think QOL in Colorado is going to go down over the next decade due to congestion, see a significant boost due to Fastracks, then decline again until the 3 mass transit projects I mentioned are completed. Doesn't matter how many freeway or arterial lanes we build; they will be filled long before they are done, unlike any rail system that gets built.

[tfox]

Some of your ideas are probalby closer than you think, livecontent.

There is a movement by a quasi-governmental agency called Rocky Mountain Rail Authority to get a statewide transit tax on the ballot in a few years. Most of the counties and cities affected are members of the RMRA. It sounds a bit like "pie in the sky", but less so than at first blush -- the president, Bill Briggs, is a former RTD board member, and seems to be working pretty quietly behind the scenes to make this happen. The idea is a north-to south (I-25) rail corridor, and an east to west (I-70) corridor. One sign of this is that RTD seems to be reserving a platform in the redeveloped union station for statewide rail transit.

Also, once Fastracks tax expires in 2016 there will almost certainly be an extension of the tax to build a new generation of rail lines (they're already calling it NexTracks). If Fastracks goes smoothly, it will probably pass.

There's a lot of momentum already behind transit, and I think as long as the relevant agencies like RTD continue to deliver good solutions and gain the people's trust, the people will continue to tax themselves to deliver more transit in the future.

[oberon]

tfox, RMRA is the organizer of the "Ranger Xpress" project I mentioned. I truly hope they succeed. And yes, it will likely depend on how good a job RTD does with Fastracks. I know a lot of people aren't happy they're discussing cutbacks or public-private partnerships, but how else do you account for the nearly tenfold increase in the price of steel? There is no one to blame but the Chinese for their recent economic boom, and who would've thought?

BTW, I think the Fastracks tax is a permanent increase? It just raised the RTD sales/use tax from 0.6% to 1%, and I can't find any info about any termination date. Either way they should be able to pay it off by 2020 or perhaps 2025. At which point, there will probably be another expansion project.

[livecontent]

It was such a beautiful day in Denver, I just decided to get away from this computer addiction and sit along the creek and watch the water flow over the rocks....

I am very impressed by the posts to this thread. Smarter people than a pretender like me. Every since I was forced into retirement, I have attended many of the meetings that these issued were raised. I was also interested and participated in growing public transit for more years but having a job which required travel, limited my participation.

I have attended numerous meetings on the tax and financing. I do not pretend to understand all the complexities of the financing but The RTD tax is a permanent increase of 0.4% for regional sales and use tax, making the transit tax 1.0%. The vote was in November 2004.

There is a misunderstanding of the public that Fastracks is only to build the the "tracks". That is incorrect, it includes much more. Let me quote RTD:

"FasTracks is RTD's 12-year comprehensive plan to build and operate high-speed rail lines and expand and improve bus service and park-n-Rides throughout the region.

FasTracks includes:

* 119 miles of new light rail and commuter rail
* 18 miles of bus rapid transit service
* 21,000 new parking spaces at rail and bus stations
* Expanded bus service in all areas "

As, you can see it include bus rapid transit (BRT),expanded bus service, stations, park-n-rides and the most important word is "operate". The expansion will require more funds to operate the system, so the increase is permanent as of January 1, 2005.

The initial tax collection will help fund the plan by creating interest revenue for the anticipated construction. That, with other source of funding, will built out the system and the tax revenue generate incrementally will be used for operations.

I believe that many of the other wishful projects will not commence until the completion of the initial built out of Fastracks in 2016. Having studies, proposals, more studies, getting on the ballot, approval/not approved, more studies and proposals, Environmental Impact Statement, meetings and meetings and meetings, more studies, lawsuits, court injunctions etc. etc. etc.--well that is why my prediction may be short of a few years.

My concern about the central mountains is about high speed rail transit. It will never happen with the problems of elevations , grades etc. All high speed rail will go around these central mountains. It would only happen if their was a great increase in central mountain populations, that may change the economies so the engineer would be done--but that will never happen.

As far as the other technologies, I do not see it because this is not Europe.
What I mean is that rail transits in mountains in Austria, and Switzerland were in place before the advent of the automobile. So, Europe society accepted rail transit in these areas because there was no other option.

The expanded development of the current Rocky Mountain populations came after the development of the automobile. Yes, there was rail transit in the mountains, starting just at the last end of the 19th Century, and it provided some limited passenger transit but mostly limited commercial. However, the automobile was just on the horizon and the rail public transit did not have the extra 60 years to develop as it did in Europe. In addition we did not have the population in the mountains as in European countries. Our mountain rail transit was surpassed by cars and trucks, going along with the development of larger roads and highways.

What is left is little tourist trains that are just an antique collection for whimsical trips.

Europe continue to develop mountain rail and go forward with newer technologies. In Europe public transit is more firmly ingrained in the society, In the US, people want to use their cars and now SUVs in the mountains. I doubt seriously that we will ever draw people from their 4-wheel drives, who are going to the mountains for recreations. Their truck is part of the experience.

Sure we have the limited "ski train", "ski buses" but the most die-hard users of mountain recreation need their SUVs.

We already provide commercial traffic for mountains with trucking and hauling of ores with freight trains. Yes, we have a some dying Amtrak trains but their opportunities are in high speed rail and that will not go through the mountains.

I do not see the state and federal government funding daily train transits for the privileged populations of mountain communities. The funding for the tourist industry will be a low priority to high speed trains and municipal public transit.

I do see some regional funded rail in affluent communities and counties but most public transit will be buses and that may be difficult to fill. The type of people who mountain recreate are more car attached then the norm. A good example is to look at the passengers casino buses to the mountains, most are not affluent skier, outdoor types who go camping and hiking. And how many times have you or your friends took a trip to Vail or other mountain communities on Greyhound?

Livecontent

[oberon]

For skiing destinations like Vail etc, they don't really need their cars. In Switzerland, you can easily take the train to most any Alps destination, and most people who live there do. I've talked to many would-be tourists who'd love to take a train from DIA out to CO mountain resorts and avoid the hassles of having to rent a car just to get there or to get around there, and then driving on I-70 through the potentially hazardous traffic and weather in the winter. I'd use it too and I live here. As long as I can either take my skis along or rent a decent size locker at my favorite ski resort and just leave it there. If people want to deal with the traffic and weather on the way out, that's their prerogative. Bet you lots would opt to take a nice fast train out instead.

For most hiking destinations, they're a bit too remote/scattered/common, and do not get enough traffic to justify public transit coverage.