Thinking about moving from AZ to Denver (real estate, apartment)

[chicagocarol]

I'm not much help to you, but can tell you that my brother relocated to Littleton from Chicago burbs 20+ years ago and has never regretted it. I have visted often and love Littleton area as well. Also have a nephew that owns a home in Highlands Ranch, and another living in downtown Denver. They all wouldn't consider living anywhere else on earth!
on the other hand- I'm heading TO Arizona

[BrooksinDenver]

I moved up to Denver from Chandler in 1993. A lot has changed since then with the growth but i'm sure you could find a home within your budget-especially now with the economy's status. I love it here compared to AZ, the winters get to me after a while, but there's the mountains here to play on. Every summer i call my friends in AZ and ask them how they like the 122 degree heat. I couldn't take that any more. Good luck in what ever you decide.

[the3Ds]

Originally Posted by bluesalad

I am thinking (a lot) about moving from Arizona to Denver. After 8 years living in the desert, I am ready for a change. We are looking for a place with easy access to freeway, 10-15 minute drive to shopping, restaurant, etc. We have 2 small children, so school is important. I actually graduated from Cherry Creek High, but that was many many years ago. I sort of know the Denver area, but a lot has changed since the 1990's. The people posting in this forum seem so knowledgable. Any recommendations? Our budget is around $500k, prefer >3,200 sq ft house (>10,000 sqft lot). Prefer houses that are no more than 10 years old. Has anyone here lived in AZ before? I currently live in the city of Chandler/Gilbert, just wondering how some Denver towns compare. Thanks!

Lived in Scottsdale for 7 years and my in-laws are in Chandler/Mesa/Gilbert. Was there a few months ago and making plans to go for another visit.

First question...why so big a house if it's the 4 of you? Seems like a lot of space to sit unused. Your air conditioner isn't going to run 24/7 like it does in Phoenix but you are not going to have cheap heating and cooling bills either...compounded by the fact you want a huge space.

Also, why so much for a house? We sold our house in Arizona during the height of the boom (not due to planning, just a job transfer and pure luck) and made more than $200,000 after fees. Those prices were totally fake and inflated so I think someone living there may have the idea that $500,000 is what it costs for a "normal" house. Not true. $500K will buy you a very nice house except in areas where people think it's a "privilege" to live there...yuck.

School districts...everyone's got an opinion, but the majority of us who were specifically looking at school districts before anything else looked to Cherry Creek School District and Douglas County SD. Since Phoenix is no stranger to school fund shortages, I will let you know that a few months ago, Douglas County voted down their school bond/levy. They are trying to find a way to cut back and on the table currently is a 4-day school week and combining junior high and high school students on the bus. On the flip side, Cherry Creek (yay us!) passed their bond and my daughter (who's in elementary school) has not only the opportunity to go to a great school, but still gets to go to art, music, gym, computer lab, an "international club" after school and my favorite of all...be in a marching band (in elementary school!!). Phoenix schools have cut back all but the basics so it's quite a refreshing change.

Most areas that are less than 10 years old will be a lot like Chandler and Gilbert...HOAs, chain restaurants and shopping centers everywhere. Despite some here who think suburbia is hell-on-earth, we are fine with our neighborhoods. Gilbert is quite a commute if you're heading on the 101 during rushhour, so you didn't mention where you are working here in Denver. You want to avoid that kind of drive if possible.

Another question is how long are you planning to stay? Most homes you buy are probably going to lose value (though I believe the huge fallout is over...now it's down to a trickle), but if you're here for a while, it's not going to matter, because while they aren't going to leap the way they did in Arizona, the won't continue to fall dramatically either.

So...just to give a shout-out to my side of the city...if you really CAN afford $500K and losing your job would not equal having your house foreclosed on because you have built up savings/emergency fund/car fund/Christmas fund/vacation fund, etc, etc, I would look in Centennial. There are some great areas with beautiful homes near Grandview High School and near a recreation center called The Trails. It's in Cherry Creek SD, the surrounding area has great shopping (Southlands Mall and easy access to another great mall called Park Meadows) and is very family friendly and surrounded by other family friendly areas as well. We have a toll road out here but very few people take it...most do the backroads...Arapahoe is 4 lanes, 55 mph, so not really a "back" road. If you are working downtown, however, the commute would make you feel like you were back in Gilbert. Not good. The DTC, however, is where tons of my neighbors work.

I live in SE Aurora but that area is distinctly a middle class area where people want to be in a good school district without being in the poor house and I don't think there ARE houses that cost that much ($500K). Ours is 2000 sq foot, walkout basement with open space behind, 4 bedrooms, 3 baths, easy walk to elementary/junior/high schools, built in 2001 and has very low crime, tons of neighborhood interaction as well as bike trails and playgrounds throughout and our house cost us $265,000. The only drawback is the yard. It's small (though not as small as ours in Phoenix). So we make up for it by taking walks and bike rides, going to the park and sitting on our deck looking at the Rocky Mountains. There is nothing like a $1600 mortgage (including property tax, homeowner's insurance and HOA fees) when you're in a great school district. If you are used to Chandler and Gilbert and don't have a problem with the people who have flocked there right along with you, you will love Centennial/SE Aurora. The only thing missing is genuinely excellent Mexican food. Well, that and Trader Joes.

[the3Ds]

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

Sure, having lived in both, and going back and forth all the time, here's what I say compares:

Paradise Valley = Cherry Hills Village
Old Town Scottsdale = Cherry Creek Shopping Center
North Scottsdale = Greenwood Village
Tempe = Boulder
Chandler/ Gilbert/ East Mesa = SW, S, or SE suburbs of Denver (Jefferson, Douglas, and Arapahoe counties).
West Phoenix/Maryvale = Commerce City, North Aurora
Central Phoenix, Central Mesa = Older parts of Lakewood, North Aurora
Anthem = Castle Rock

And of course there are many areas of Denver that don't have an equivalent to anything in Phoenix. Most of central Denver consists of nice, early 20th century gentrified neighborhoods, whereas most of central Phoenix is 1950s era ghettos. Denver Public Schools, though, aren't the best. For a family with young children, the suburbs are your best bet, especially if you want them to attend public school.

Wow, Vegas...sometimes I think you're just blowing smoke about knowing Phoenix, but you surprised me kid, you really surprised me!

I would add, since I'm not familiar with these areas but have seen numerous posts about both Bradburn Village and Stapleton on this site that they are the equivalent of Tempe as well.

[vegaspilgrim]

The3Ds, you realize that the post you responded to in your eloquent 8 paragraph essay is over a year and half old? I'm afraid that you're talking to a wall. Gotta check the dates first, as a new poster here revived this old thread.

And what is it I've said in the past that make you think I'm blowing smoke about Phoenix?

[the3Ds]

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

The3Ds, you realize that the post you responded to in your eloquent 8 paragraph essay is over a year and half old? I'm afraid that you're talking to a wall. Gotta check the dates first, as a new poster here revived this old thread.

And what is it I've said in the past that make you think I'm blowing smoke about Phoenix?

Darn...I thought my points were excellent.

And I was just joking about blowing smoke...clearly you know the area. Having moved all over the country, Phoenix is really the only city that I know as well as the area I grew up in in Seattle. My entire single life was spent in Scottsdale, Tempe and downtown Phoenix (I used to work in one of the so-called highrises). It wasn't until I met my husband and his family that I even ventured over to the other side of the city (Chandler/Mesa), and discovered that it pretty much looked the same (though Scottsdale is much more "posh"). Incidentally, my roommate from college was very rich (well, at least her dad was) so I got to live in the house with her that he bought...WAY nicer than any house I had ever lived in. My "rent" was basically her spending money. No complaints but it was a challenge to go back to "normalcy".

Anyway, since I am still getting to know Denver, I appreciated your comparisons. You are correct that some cities don't compare at all, but it gives me a good idea.

[vegaspilgrim]

Originally Posted by the3Ds

Darn...I thought my points were excellent.

And I was just joking about blowing smoke...clearly you know the area. Having moved all over the country, Phoenix is really the only city that I know as well as the area I grew up in in Seattle. My entire single life was spent in Scottsdale, Tempe and downtown Phoenix (I used to work in one of the so-called highrises). It wasn't until I met my husband and his family that I even ventured over to the other side of the city (Chandler/Mesa), and discovered that it pretty much looked the same (though Scottsdale is much more "posh"). Incidentally, my roommate from college was very rich (well, at least her dad was) so I got to live in the house with her that he bought...WAY nicer than any house I had ever lived in. My "rent" was basically her spending money. No complaints but it was a challenge to go back to "normalcy".

Anyway, since I am still getting to know Denver, I appreciated your comparisons. You are correct that some cities don't compare at all, but it gives me a good idea.

Oh ok, thanks! I guess I didn't catch the nuances there.

I'd say I know Phoenix almost as well as I know Denver. Phoenix was the first place I lived on my own as an adult, away from my parents. First two years at ASU I didn't have a car so I bicycled ALL over the place, and I mean literally ALL over the place. I actually miss the area somewhat (especially Tempe, Scottsdale, and "northeast central" Phoenix), some things I like better than Denver, and could even see myself living there again-- except for one thing: the relentless, barbaric heat. I decided to toss in the towel; it felt like I was throwing my life in the garbage can for 5 months out of the year there. In summer 2007 it was over 110 degrees every single day for 30 days straight-- set a new record. And the worst part is it stays ungodly hot even at night, due to all the urban concrete. And now that whole city is booby trapped with hundreds of speed cameras on the freeways, red light & speed cameras at every intersection, mobile photo radar vans-- it's literally turned into a police state there, you have to be more afraid of getting zapped by the robocops than the other drivers on the road.

Unfortunately I think Phoenix is a ruined place. It used to be a true desert agricultural oasis, a laid back, friendly community, now all the orange groves have been bulldozed and replaced with subdivisions. Pretty much all the AZ natives and long time residents I know tell me it was a much better place to live all the way up until the early 90s, when the explosion boom happened. I don't really see much of a future for the city other than more of the same. There's a surprising amount of people who have moved from Denver to Phoenix and vice versa.

I have no idea though where you're getting that Stapleton/Bradburn/ "new urbanist" style suburban communities are the equivalent of Tempe? No way. When you think Tempe, think Littleton-- now imagine what would happen if CSU was located in Littleton, rather than up in Fort Collins. That's Tempe. It's basically an old town/ inner ring suburb right in the middle of the metro area with a mix of old people who have lived there since the 1950s and a lot of college students and other transient young people. Definitely not a brand new, planned, family friendly, babies and strollers community. Phoenix doesn't have any Stapleton type development, the concept hasn't really caught on there.

[the3Ds]

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

Oh ok, thanks! I guess I didn't catch the nuances there.

I have no idea though where you're getting that Stapleton/Bradburn/ "new urbanist" style suburban communities are the equivalent of Tempe? No way. When you think Tempe, think Littleton-- now imagine what would happen if CSU was located in Littleton, rather than up in Fort Collins. That's Tempe. It's basically an old town/ inner ring suburb right in the middle of the metro area with a mix of old people who have lived there since the 1950s and a lot of college students and other transient young people. Definitely not a brand new, planned, family friendly, babies and strollers community. Phoenix doesn't have any Stapleton type development, the concept hasn't really caught on there.

For Stapleton/Bradburn, I was comparing it to Tempe for the attitude of the residents...not the housing (though as I understand it, Tempe has built a lot more "upscale" homes then were there before).

Yes, I remember the heat well. Remember the first time in the year when your air conditioner turned off? Usually around November. I always thought it was so quiet in my house, after it hummed all day and all night for 7 months straight.

My enjoyment of Phoenix was totally different when I moved back there after being married with kids. It was a blast when I was single because there seems to be a never-ending supply of shopping, restaurants, nightlife, hanging out at the fancy hotel pools, biking along the Chapparal Park trails on Hayden Ave, I even cocktail waitressed at the Birds Nest during the Phoenix Open. But as a married person with kids, it seemed as if the only true safe place to live in a good school district was Scottsdale and we couldn't afford it. I like that about Denver...there are places to live that won't put you in the poor house but will allow my kids to go to the best schools in the state.

[Spot]

Originally Posted by bluesalad

I agree that the sprawl is getting out of hand in phx and the builders are still building.
2bindenver - you mentioned that prices are holding well in certain areas, I was surfing the net yesterday and read somewhere that houses in Parker are approaching $400-$500 for sfh (for a newer home with appx 2,800-3,200 sq ft) that is much more expensive than I thought. Is that your impression as well?
I just received a relo package from a realtor and boy, by looking at the maps, colorado has changed a lot. I think if we decide to move out there, will probably rent first so we are not rushed to make the house purchase decision. Any ideas what homes/townhomes rent for approx. 2000 sq a month? Rent is cheap in AZ, I am afraid I am in for a sticker shock out here.

I am currently in the process of moving from Tucson to Denver. I also lived in Phoenix a couple of years ago. My advice would be to rent at first until you know the neighborhoods better and what kind of a commute you face. We looked around the Southern half of Denver for a rental and found a nice house near Washington Park. Rents are slightly cheaper than Phoenix from what I have seen.

After a year of renting, we figure we will have a much better idea of where in the Denver area we want to settle permanently. And it's highly unlikely that property prices will do anything except maybe go down slightly over the next twelve months.

[2bindenver]

Originally Posted by Spot

And it's highly unlikely that property prices will do anything except maybe go down slightly over the next twelve months.

I bet you are wrong.

Interest rates are at historical lows, more people coming than going, 92% of people have jobs. First time homebuyers get up to $8,000 back. Fast Tracks getting pushed.

People who can buy now will. Inventory & days on market have decreased every month now for 12 months. Builder inventory is low, and they haven't been pulling permits.

Really, go ahead and wait. What will happen to interest rates if we hit some inflation? Homes are the most affordable right now.

Bank are making profits. I mean really, they borrow money at nearly 0% and lend it to poor slobs at 5% - what a mark up!

I only have 3 properties right now without contracts. I bet I get at least one in tomorrow.