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Old 09-09-2011, 11:57 AM
 
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
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Lexus actually makes a really good off road vehicle which will handle most types of terrain and conditions you would encounter.
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Old 09-09-2011, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
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I'm also looking for an older Subaru for my wife. The dealerships have no new cars due to the tsunami that hit Japan. Subaru isn't getting the 2012 Impreza till December/January when they usually have them in the summer. Also, the cash for clunkers took a lot of older cars off the market, so we're likely not going to see used cars until the new cars show up and people start trading them in.

The small lots usually buy their cars from auction, and I will never buy a car that came from an auction. It landed at auction for a reason.
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Old 09-09-2011, 12:22 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
431 posts, read 860,567 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 80skeys View Post
Lexus actually makes a really good off road vehicle which will handle most types of terrain and conditions you would encounter.
Lexus also makes tons of models, so perhaps you could be more specific?
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Old 09-09-2011, 12:23 PM
 
Location: Centennial State
399 posts, read 692,617 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 80skeys View Post
Lexus actually makes a really good off road vehicle which will handle most types of terrain and conditions you would encounter.
Well yeah, AWD is not the same thing as 4WD or 4x4. AWD is for paved roads, sometimes unplowed paved roads depending on the car manufacturer's AWD system. 4WD and 4x4 is for unpaved roads or just all terrain (or can be used on paved roads that haven't been plowed but highly not advised). The GX and LX have the full time 4WD that is the same as the Toyota 4Runner and Toyota Land Cruiser. The Lexus RX, on the other hand, is AWD and uses a tweaked version of the AWD from the Toyota Venza and Toyota RAV4 (tweaked because it has a locking option unlike the 2009+ RAV4 or Venza).
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Old 09-09-2011, 02:22 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
431 posts, read 860,567 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sobe Itsavized View Post
Well yeah, AWD is not the same thing as 4WD or 4x4. AWD is for paved roads, sometimes unplowed paved roads depending on the car manufacturer's AWD system. 4WD and 4x4 is for unpaved roads or just all terrain (or can be used on paved roads that haven't been plowed but highly not advised). The GX and LX have the full time 4WD that is the same as the Toyota 4Runner and Toyota Land Cruiser. The Lexus RX, on the other hand, is AWD and uses a tweaked version of the AWD from the Toyota Venza and Toyota RAV4 (tweaked because it has a locking option unlike the 2009+ RAV4 or Venza).
You're partly correct. AWD can be used on any road surface. Ever heard of the World Rally Championship? I drive off road (gravel or dirt roads) in my Subaru all the time, most likely faster and with more control than a 4WD truck ever will. Where a 4WD excels is (usually) in ground clearance, and slow speed obstructions in the path. An AWD will be sure footed on any road surface, be it tarmac, gravel, or snow.

AWD is similar to a full time 4WD though, except that a 4WD will have a 4HI and a 4LO, the 4HI for general driving and the 4LO for slow, rock crawling type of driving off road where more wheel torque at slower speeds is required. Both AWD and full time 4WD will drive perfectly fine on pavement or any other flat surface.
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Old 09-09-2011, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Centennial State
399 posts, read 692,617 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superorb View Post
You're partly correct. AWD can be used on any road surface. Ever heard of the World Rally Championship? I drive off road (gravel or dirt roads) in my Subaru all the time, most likely faster and with more control than a 4WD truck ever will. Where a 4WD excels is (usually) in ground clearance, and slow speed obstructions in the path. An AWD will be sure footed on any road surface, be it tarmac, gravel, or snow.

AWD is similar to a full time 4WD though, except that a 4WD will have a 4HI and a 4LO, the 4HI for general driving and the 4LO for slow, rock crawling type of driving off road where more wheel torque at slower speeds is required. Both AWD and full time 4WD will drive perfectly fine on pavement or any other flat surface.
Actually, I'm completely correct. I didn't say AWD couldn't be used on any road surface or off road. Subaru has WRC heritage so of course I would know that if you saw my first post in this thread. I did say not all AWD systems are built the same too in the same post.

Driving perfectly fine in a straight line, sure. However turning left and right on dry pavement with AWD, 4WD, or 4x4 engaged differs between each system in relation to the automaker. AWD doesn't have as much of a torque bind when turning compared to full time 4WD or 4x4, hence "AWD is for paved roads" compared to full time 4WD or 4x4.
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Old 09-09-2011, 03:34 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
431 posts, read 860,567 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sobe Itsavized View Post
Actually, I'm completely correct. I didn't say AWD couldn't be used on any road surface or off road. Subaru has WRC heritage so of course I would know that if you saw my first post in this thread. I did say not all AWD systems are built the same too in the same post.

Driving perfectly fine in a straight line, sure. However turning left and right on dry pavement with AWD, 4WD, or 4x4 engaged differs between each system in relation to the automaker. AWD doesn't have as much of a torque bind when turning compared to full time 4WD or 4x4, hence "AWD is for paved roads" compared to full time 4WD or 4x4.
You said that, and I quote, "AWD is for paved roads, sometimes unplowed paved roads". No mention of non-paved roads there, so you can see my confusion. Full time AWD is fine for paved roads too.

You might want to read through this page. I know it's a Jeep site, but it may help.

What is the difference between full time four wheel drive, all wheel drive versus automaticall wheel drive (on-demand system)

Quote:
Full time 4WD, also called permanent 4WD, (not to be confused with: part time 4WD ) is a system that powers all four wheels at all times and it can be used full time on all surfaces including pavement. The additional feature of a differential incorporated into the transfer case makes it possible to use 4WD all the time.
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Old 09-09-2011, 04:43 PM
 
Location: Sunnyvale, CA
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AWD is not all-wheel-drive all the time. The car will adjust it depending on the feedback it gets from the tires. How well it works depends on how well it makes the decisions of which tires to send power to at any given time.

4x4 systems like you find in trucks lock the differentiials which means you should not put them on dry pavement because making turns could cause damage.

4wd systems which do not force equal wheel speed on an axle can be used without issue on pavement.
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Old 09-09-2011, 05:02 PM
 
Location: Centennial State
399 posts, read 692,617 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by superorb View Post
You said that, and I quote, "AWD is for paved roads, sometimes unplowed paved roads". No mention of non-paved roads there, so you can see my confusion. Full time AWD is fine for paved roads too.

You might want to read through this page. I know it's a Jeep site, but it may help.

What is the difference between full time four wheel drive, all wheel drive versus automaticall wheel drive (on-demand system)
No, I can see your assumption, not your confusion. If I don't mention it, it doesn't mean it's the other way. And I did just say "However turning left and right on dry pavement with AWD, 4WD, or 4x4 engaged differs between each system in relation to the automaker."

Quote:
Originally Posted by 80skeys View Post
AWD is not all-wheel-drive all the time. The car will adjust it depending on the feedback it gets from the tires. How well it works depends on how well it makes the decisions of which tires to send power to at any given time.
I partially agree. Just like "how well [an AWD system] works depends on how well it makes the decisions" given how the manufacturer is applying it, some AWD systems are engaged all of the time like the modern day Subaru. On the other hand, Honda's AWD system is a "part-time 4WD system" (as Honda calls it I think) which is really AWD, not 4WD, and is not AWD all of the time because it is a FWD-based AWD system. Kind of like the "on-demand 4WD" on Toyota RAV4's.

Last edited by Sobe Itsavized; 09-09-2011 at 05:13 PM..
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Old 09-10-2011, 06:41 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
431 posts, read 860,567 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 80skeys View Post
AWD is not all-wheel-drive all the time.
It is on my Subaru. 50/50 split normally, but it will vary that amount depending on wheel slip.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sobe Itsavized View Post
No, I can see your assumption, not your confusion. If I don't mention it, it doesn't mean it's the other way. And I did just say "However turning left and right on dry pavement with AWD, 4WD, or 4x4 engaged differs between each system in relation to the automaker."
Fair enough
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