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Old 09-07-2011, 05:05 PM
 
5,090 posts, read 13,504,998 times
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This may be a pointless discussion because those who have a desire or a need to take public transit, will do so, whatever the arguments against. Some people have no other choices because of age, disability or cannot afford other means. Some people desire to ride because it is more relaxing. Some people have a feeling social responsibilities and believe that public transit is better for the environment.

Then there are those who will never take public transit no matter what the positive arguments that work for them. When I lived in NYC, I was constantly surprised by the people who drove from nearby Brooklyn and Queens to Manhattan; not because it was cheaper, easier or faster; because they would never take public transit. They had many reasons. They loved their car and the comfort, even when boggled down in traffic jams offer the bridges and paying huge costs to park or they did not want to mingle with other people. Some were not wealthy and it was a economic drain to drive into Manhattan but you could not convince them. Too me, you have to be crazy to drive on that island.

Yet I remember this Jewish Family that own a business in midtown and they took public transit from their residents in Brooklyn, an apartment that they owned in the whole building which they also owned. They were wealthy, and perhaps why they were wealthy is that they lived simply; and could well afford chauffered service to work.

I do not argue with the point that the fares are high in Denver. I do know that many years ago, Denver tried an experiment with no fares--that was before my time here. I do know that much of the fares are heavily subsidized by businesses.

I suspect that there is some sort of tax issue is that makes it beneficial to inflate the fares so that the subsidized cost is more, and provides more of a tax savings--which could be tremendous. I have learned, as I age, that all is not what it seems and there are undercurrents of benefits and advantages that come to those in the know; and those who do not know, do not benefit. That is the advantages and disadvantages of capitalism and perhaps all social systems.

So, now I just sit back; and ponder, wonder and accept--and
Livecontent

Last edited by livecontent; 09-07-2011 at 05:14 PM..
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Old 09-07-2011, 05:53 PM
 
Location: S.F.
509 posts, read 1,209,635 times
Reputation: 616
You guys are lucky, here in South Dakota it would be nice to have bus service in the suburbs of my South Dakota city.....I know there is not the giant need for it compared to large cities but with a large amount of people moving to the suburbs of the city, you would think they would expand the transit service....I can't wait to move to a bigger city and take advantage of public transit, when I travel to Minneapolis/St Paul I take the light rail from Mall of America downtown and I love it. If you think about it, even at $5/ride - $10 per day - ~$200 month it still is relatively competitive with driving yourself if you factor in gas, maintenance etc....I also enjoy reading and if I could just sit on a bus or rail and do that for an extra hour a day that would be awesome....I know its not for everyone but I for one would enjoy it.
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Old 09-07-2011, 06:24 PM
 
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
7,142 posts, read 8,835,162 times
Reputation: 7732
Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverLawGal View Post
That's an interesting list. I'd be interested to see that same list, but with a date that they began service. Just curious.
Denver $5.00 (1994)
Cleveland $3.50 (1913)
Pittsburgh $3.25 (1897)
Seattle $2.75 (2009)
San Diego $2.50 (1981)
Sacramento $2.50 (1987)
Portland $2.40 (1986)
St. Louis $2.25 (1993)
Salt Lake City $2.25 (1999)
Minneapolis $2.25 (2004)
New Jersey $2.10 (2000)
Boston: $2.00 (1897)
San Francisco $2.00 (1912)
Philadelphia $2.00 (1906)
San Jose $2.00 (1987)
Phoenix $1.75 (2008)
Dallas $1.75 (1996)
Charlotte $1.75 (2007)
Buffalo $1.75 (1984)
Baltimore $1.60 (1992)
Los Angeles $1.50 (1990)
Newark $1.50 (1935)
Houston $1.25 (2004)

FYI if Denver voters had not rejected RTDs original light rail plan in 1980, Denver would have been the second city to get light rail, right after San Diego. Because of that Buffalo, Portland, Sacramento, San Jose, LA, Baltimore, and St. Louis got a jump on Denver.

Last edited by KaaBoom; 09-07-2011 at 06:52 PM..
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Old 09-08-2011, 08:57 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
3,530 posts, read 8,717,918 times
Reputation: 840
Thanks for providing that list - it is very interesting to see. I question the rail being up and running in Denver in 1994. It just seems like it was later than that.

Also, though it may be hirer than other cities, as LiveContent pointed out, there is the desire factor. The cost of the eco pass is worth it to me, as overall I pay much more for parking and wear and tear, and gas. And sanity.
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Old 09-09-2011, 06:44 AM
 
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
7,142 posts, read 8,835,162 times
Reputation: 7732
Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverLawGal View Post
Thanks for providing that list - it is very interesting to see. I question the rail being up and running in Denver in 1994. It just seems like it was later than that.
It was 1994. I was there. Here are some pictures I took of the very first train they moved on the Downtown tracks, on a Sunday morning in the summer of 1994. That was the first day of testing trains in Downtown Denver. The line opened several months later on October 7, 1994.

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Old 09-09-2011, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
3,530 posts, read 8,717,918 times
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Thanks KaaBoom - I was there too - LOL - I just don't recall it being that year.
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Old 09-10-2011, 02:36 PM
 
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
7,142 posts, read 8,835,162 times
Reputation: 7732
Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverLawGal View Post
Thanks KaaBoom - I was there too - LOL - I just don't recall it being that year.
LOL yea, time goes fast. It doesn't seem to me like it was that long ago either. Hell, I remember the grand opening of the 16th Street Mall. I sure can't believe that that was 30 years ago. It seems like maybe 10 years ago. It's shocking to me to hear people say the the Mall is getting old and needs a makeover.
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Old 09-12-2011, 01:26 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
3,530 posts, read 8,717,918 times
Reputation: 840
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaaBoom View Post
It's shocking to me to hear people say the the Mall is getting old and needs a makeover.
Me too!! What the heck!?! They are having to replace the stones where the shuttles lie. Crazy!!
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Old 01-03-2012, 03:01 PM
 
Location: Littleton
2 posts, read 2,252 times
Reputation: 20
The problem is that a lot of people look at the RTD vs. driving a private vehicle as a binary decision. Either you drive a car or you use RTD.

Most prospective RTD customers own a car, pay insurance, pay maintenance, drive around their neighborhoods. Balance serveral options before deciding on driving or RTD.

If I could find a light rail option that made financial sense AS A SUPPLEMENT to my vehicle, I would use it A LOT. I would use it to get to work. I would use it to make sure I never drink an drive (I never do that anyway - I use 10-ride ticket books and cabs although I'd love to use a bus instead). So would others who pay for gas, oil changes, insurance ANYWAY. Sure I'd drive a lot less with a monthly RTD pass. But not so much that my gas and maintenance would be completely negated.

But in addition to reducing service (why would a weekend bus out to the suburbs NOT run on Friday and Saturday nights when people go out and have a few drinks?) while increasing fares, RTD has schemed the "Fare Zones" to make it completely economically stupid to use a monthly rail pass. To get to the Broadway station from Littleton Downtown is a THREE ZONE FARE BY INCHES. And the Broadway station is central hub for the southern Metro corridors So the price to get from Littleton to Dry Creek goes from $79 (which I'm ALMOST willing to pay) to $140 a month. And buses run too infrequently in the southwest 'burbs for me to trust getting to work on time with them unless I leave an hour earlier than I do now. That doesn't fit my life.

Sure you can target companies to pass along passes as a benefit. Does that mean you should price the daily rider whose company doesn't want to provide that benefit out of using the service? I DON'T pay for parking. I have GREAT insurance and rates. I only have ONE car payment for less than $200 a month. RTD doesn't make any sense as much as I want it to.
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Old 01-03-2012, 03:12 PM
 
704 posts, read 1,496,193 times
Reputation: 629
I'm not sure that RTD itself makes a lot of sense, let alone the monthly pass. I have a yearly pass supplied to me, but I'd have a hard time justifying actually purchasing a yearly or monthly pass if it wasn't.
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