RTD to sell out transit users and history for $65 million. (Denver: fit in, how much)

[KaaBoom]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

Does KaBoom, with his long and illustrious career of carping about historic preservation in Denver, know who Dana Crawford is?

I've known who she is since the 1970s. The fact that she saved Larimer Square from becoming parking lots, doesn't make this Union Station Hotel plan a good one. It's not like she is saving Union Station from demolition or something. If that was the case, I say go for it.

[zenkonami]

We could have a rail museum in (or near) the building as well...for a city with such a history on rails, that would be cool.

[wong21fr]

I guess that RTD's expert panel thinks that the hotel plan is a pretty good idea:

RTD board delays pivotal vote
By Margret Jackson
The Denver Post
November 23, 2011

lthough the panel appointed to evaluate the two redevelopment proposals for Denver Union Station recommended the boutique-hotel option, the Regional Transportation District​ board had so many questions during a nearly 3 1/2-hour executive session Tuesday night that no decision was made on the future of the historic building.
Additional information will be sought over the next two weeks. The board is scheduled to make a determination on the next steps at a special board meeting Dec. 6.
"The board has not made a decision with moving forward on the negotiation process at this time, and we plan to do that over the next two weeks," said Scott Reed, a spokesman for RTD.
The advisory panel, which consists of representatives from RTD, the city and county of Denver, the Denver Union Station Project Authority and two real-estate experts, recommended the Union Station Alliance team for the project.

The panel likely recognizes that the station needs additional uses beyond a transit hall to be used consistently, something that the old purists fail to recognize. This is because the Union Station Neighborhood Company deliberately designed the transit elements to de-emphasize the station and to force the pedestrian paths for transit users out of the station to the surrounding parcels in order to make the retail slots in those parcels more attractive.

[KaaBoom]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

I guess that RTD's expert panel thinks that the hotel plan is a pretty good idea:

Of course they do. They are going to make a lot of money from the deal.

Originally Posted by wong21fr

The panel likely recognizes that the station needs additional uses beyond a transit hall to be used consistently, something that the old purists fail to recognize.

I fail to recognize that, because it's total BS. RTD is estimating that 100,000 passengers a day will pass through the station. Thats over 4000 passengers an hour 24 hrs a day. Thats the same number of passengers that use Grand Central Station in NYC. And it gets used consistently, without any additional uses beyond transit.

Originally Posted by wong21fr

This is because the Union Station Neighborhood Company deliberately designed the transit elements to de-emphasize the station and to force the pedestrian paths for transit users out of the station to the surrounding parcels in order to make the retail slots in those parcels more attractive.

In other words it's not designed for users of the station. It's designed to make money for the rich developers.

[KaaBoom]

No surprise, but RTD is going ahead with plans to turn Union Station into a boutique hotel, despite opposition.

RTD panel votes to recommend hotel redevelopment of Union Station - The Denver Post

[hammertime33]

Originally Posted by KaaBoom

No surprise, but RTD is going ahead with plans to turn Union Station into a boutique hotel, despite opposition.

RTD panel votes to recommend hotel redevelopment of Union Station - The Denver Post

. They picked the better option of the two.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by KaaBoom

No surprise, but RTD is going ahead with plans to turn Union Station into a boutique hotel, despite opposition.

RTD panel votes to recommend hotel redevelopment of Union Station - The Denver Post

Hey, the RTD Board deals in facts, you're dealing in nostalgia. Considering how misinformed the public is (for some weird reason everyone is envisioning the Grand Central Market or Redding Terminal Market in a space the size of a 7/11), I think that the RTD Board was smart to choose the option that has some promise of higher revenues and a lesser chance of having to be subsidized in the future even though it's rather silly to think that either proposal is accurate in their 60-yr revenue projections.

Really, they are the exact same proposal for the main level and the basement, it's the next two floors where the difference is and a hotel ensures some level of pedestrian traffic.

[zenkonami]

I have to say I'm surprised. Occupancy is down in hotels across the downtown area. In addition, foot traffic in hotels is largely limited to, well...guests. Occasionally there is some outside business via restaurants, but people that don't stay in hotels do not generally traffic hotels.

It's possible Union Station could mark an exception due to it's location as a transit hub, but that remains to be soon. As someone that works within the industry I find the decision somewhat short sighted. That said, I think several recent RTD decisions have followed that path. I find it peculiar to justify one decision based on short term costs while another is supported by long term benefits.

[livecontent]

To the OP:

If you have concerns with the decisions, contact your RTD representative. The final vote has not been taken. Of course, if you do not live here, you do not have a RTD representative to contact.

You can contact your State representative and express your opinions if State monies are involved. Of course, if you do not live here, you do not have a State representative to contact.

You could have gone to the many informational meetings, as I have. Of course, if you do not live here, you would not have gone to the those meetings because you do not have a stake in the outcome.

You could go to the RTD board meeting and express your opinions, as I have done in the past. Of course, if you do not live here, you would not really travel to a meeting, on a subject you have no stake or any expertise.

You could have, over the years, explored Unions Station, including the 2nd. and 3rd. floors and the tunnels when all these discussions were initiated, many years ago, as I have done. Of course, if you have not lived in Denver for many years and were not involved with any planning, then you would not have seen the real conditions of the building and be able to make an informed decision.

You could still write a letter to RTD with your vehement points of views. I assure they would be very much cautiously concerned, and would take your letter very seriously, especially if they had contacts with you in the past.

Livecontent

As a side note, it is very interesting to hear you talk about Grand Central Station and give us your informed comparative opinions. Yet, you have also told us, you have never been to New York City. Yea, it is nothing like becoming an expert on all issues by the seat of your pants--in front of a computer monitor.

[livecontent]

Originally Posted by zenkonami

I have to say I'm surprised. Occupancy is down in hotels across the downtown area. In addition, foot traffic in hotels is largely limited to, well...guests. Occasionally there is some outside business via restaurants, but people that don't stay in hotels do not generally traffic hotels.

It's possible Union Station could mark an exception due to it's location as a transit hub, but that remains to be soon. As someone that works within the industry I find the decision somewhat short sighted. That said, I think several recent RTD decisions have followed that path. I find it peculiar to justify one decision based on short term costs while another is supported by long term benefits.

This is not the type of hotel that would be limited only to guest traffic as you have said--it is transit hub. I view it somewhat in the scheme of the Queen Mary Cruise ship at Long Beach Harbor, with some sort of allure that would bring outside traffic into the building. Obviously not in such a grand scheme but perhaps just enough to be an attraction--maybe for railroad buffs and fans.

Having seen the rooms which will be renovated under this plan, I think perhaps the renovations will help and be beneficial as these areas are in bad shape. Even if the Hotel fail, the rooms will be renovated and can be returned to the Union Station Authority in better shape and the cost of renovation would be on the developer. The other plan indicates that the third floor will not be included in any renovation. So, perhaps, it is a gamble worth taking.

Personally, I do not totally like the idea of the hotel, but it was studied by a committee with much information provided, and this recommendation was made to the RTD board for a final vote.

I have expressed my opinions in writing to my RTD representative, over the past few months. I may be at the that meeting.

Just to note, many years ago there was a big proposal to make Union Station the center of a New Convention for Denver. It must have been over 25 years ago. However, outside consultants were engaged and the recommendation was to expand the current site--which has been done twice, over the years. So, there has been other attempts to revive this Station--now we have a better opportunity.

Livecontent