RTD to sell out transit users and history for $65 million. (Denver: appointed, sale)
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Union Station Alliance wants to transform the station into a 130-room boutique hotel, saying it would be Denver's "living room." The team estimates it will pay the Regional Transportation District about $65 million over the 60-year term of the lease. It also will generate $130 million in taxes and create hundreds of jobs.
Quote:
"What they've done (in their proposal) is taken over the main public space, which is the train hall, and called it a living room, but it's a hotel lobby flanked by a reception desk at one end and a bar at the other end," said Jeffrey Sheppard of Roth Sheppard Architects, whose office is two blocks from the station. "What they've done is a disgrace to the building."
Please discuss while you can. Because this thread will probably be locked in a day or two, if not sooner. Because some here refuse to hear anything negative about RTD.
What I'm curious about is KaaBoom's plan for Union Station.
Personally, I'd like to see the local market, particularly if it's touting local (at least by way of Colorado) products and businesses. ESPECIALLY because part of the purpose of the transit hub is to welcome visitors to Denver and Colorado as a whole.
I think the Great Hall should be a Great Hall...it doesn't need to service Amtrak so heavily...one counter should be able to handle that easily, and it could even be combined with an RTD services counter...one that would be staffed even during odd hours. Nothing more frustrating than trying to get train tickets when you a) only have a credit card, b) the machines are "out of order", c) you do not have correct change, d) you are trying to get a monthly pass but THE MACHINES AREN'T WORKING CORRECTLY.
In addition, the Great Hall could possibly house a couple of kiosks...small eateries, souvenirs, etc...
Why not borrow part of one wing for a neighborhood style grocery store? Why not use one wing as hotel space and the other as shopping? I'll be honest...I don't really know the configuration of the building outside of the main hall...from outside, the wings just look like empty office space.
I work in hotels, and they are not good hangouts. We have an abundance of hotel space downtown. I could certainly see having a hotel in there, but we'd be better off luring a hotel to the Union Station district (just north of the station) than putting one in the station proper. Shopping opportunities would be far more useful and make the station far more of a destination unto itself...some might choose Union Station that day instead of 16th & Stout because they can pick up some groceries, or something else they've been meaning to get but haven't had time to.
My concern is that they aren't thinking about transit users in these plans. I think the station should be geared around transit users, and not potentially wealthy patrons that can afford a room at the Oxford. Otherwise, it's just robbing us of public space.
I'm not nuts about a fancy hotel in there. I'm a rail fan, rail historian (junior grade) and a career transport type who wants to maintain a strong semblance of the building's original purpose. I was disappointed when they tore out the underground walkways to the train platforms, they were very functional for their intended use and I'm hopeful for a rail renaissance in this nation, though not for many years.
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What I'm curious about is KaaBoom's plan for Union Station.
What my plan is? It's no secret. I have already posted many times.
RTD should have keep their hands off the building. It's a historic building. It should be left alone as much as possible. Right now it still looks almost exactly as it did in the 1950s, and thats the way it should have stayed.
1. RTD should spent a couple of million dollars to fix the roof, stop the leaks, repaint everything, refurbish the woodwork, and put some new floor tiles down.
2. They should have rebuild some of the train platforms they tore out in the 1990s remodel. They should have keep the historic tunnels for access to RTD and Amtrak trains.
3. They should move all of their administrative offices into Union Station space, and put their Blake/Market Street property on the market. I don't even know what the purpose of Market Street Station is now that Union Station is the terminal for the lower end of the 16th Street Mall. Then lease out what ever space is left to how ever wants it.
And that is it. Money saved by not having to build a new train hall and proceeds from the sale of the Market Street block would put another $100+ million in RTDs bank account. And a historic building would be saved, and used for the purpose it was intended. A train station, not a hipster hotel.
One Train, Two Stops a day, one in the am and one in the pm--that is Amtrak service to Denver, today. Even that service is being questioned. Amtrak does not want more space because they do not want to lease more than they need. There is no argument with the parties involved.
My previous post gives that information on another thread:
There is obviously no point in remodeling, and rebuilding, and building new facilities, tunnnels and platforms that will not be used. In addition future passenger train service needs will changes and then we built what is needed.
So, get your whistle, your engineers cap and play with your toy trains because the reaility is much different now in Denver.
Livecontent
Last edited by livecontent; 11-14-2011 at 08:42 PM..
I'm not nuts about a fancy hotel in there. I'm a rail fan, rail historian (junior grade) and a career transport type who wants to maintain a strong semblance of the building's original purpose. I was disappointed when they tore out the underground walkways to the train platforms, they were very functional for their intended use and I'm hopeful for a rail renaissance in this nation, though not for many years.
That train tunnels are not functional and not used today--they are only tunnels that have it their day. I was here when they were used. If they existed today, they would be an hindrance in the future use of the station for local public transit and they would have still been destroyed.
Rail renaisssance?? Well, when that day comes then we built. We do not maintain, remodel and wait for a questionable future for a transportation of tomorrow that may very well be different.
In addition, there is much though to bypass Denver with Commercial Rail Transport, east of the city, on the plains near the airport. This would remove much of the difficulties and conficts of rail and auto traffic and open up more land for better development. That would move railyards yards and maintenance facilties much farther east. The commercial support also services passenger engines and cars.
In addition to that thought , it has also been further argued that long distance passenger train service should meld in with airplane passenger service as these two modalities will benefit each other better if they were reasonably physical closer, with easier transfers. So that future of a train renaissance would leave Union Station out of the picture. Think about it?
These issues have been discussed by competent stakeholders over many years in many meetings which I have on occassion heard discussed.
Livecontent
Last edited by livecontent; 11-14-2011 at 08:50 PM..
3. They should move all of their administrative offices into Union Station space, and put their Blake/Market Street property on the market. I don't even know what the purpose of Market Street Station is now that Union Station is the terminal for the lower end of the 16th Street Mall. Then lease out what ever space is left to how ever wants it.
And that is it. Money saved by not having to build a new train hall and proceeds from the sale of the Market Street block would put another $100+ million in RTDs bank account. And a historic building would be saved, and used for the purpose it was intended. A train station, not a hipster hotel.
Market Street Station is already "sold". East West Partners is the private development firm that has been contracted to develop the Union Station neighborhood - they previously developed the Riverfront Park neighborhood (well, they still are to some extent). Market Street Station is part of that contract.
When it closes in either late 2013 or early 2014, ownership of Market Street Station will be transferred to East West, which will then redevelop the block. The agreement stipulates that the historic 4 story brick building facing Blake remains RTD property (it will continue to house RTD offices), that a public plaza be constructed along a portion of the Market Street side, and that the rest of the block be developed with mid-rise, mixed use buildings.
Market Street Station is already "sold". East West Partners is the private development firm that has been contracted to develop the Union Station neighborhood - they previously developed the Riverfront Park neighborhood (well, they still are to some extent). Market Street Station is part of that contract.
When it closes in either late 2013 or early 2014, ownership of Market Street Station will be transferred to East West, which will then redevelop the block. The agreement stipulates that the historic 4 story brick building facing Blake remains RTD property (it will continue to house RTD offices), that a public plaza be constructed along a portion of the Market Street side, and that the rest of the block be developed with mid-rise, mixed use buildings.
OK thats interesting about Market Street Station.
I would still wonder why they couldn't move all of their administration offices to Union Station. It seems to me that there would be plenty of room, and then the Black Street buildings would be surplus. For an agency that is complaining about funding problems, they don't seem to be willing to part with unnecessary redundant properties.
Does KaBoom, with his long and illustrious career of carping about historic preservation in Denver, know who Dana Crawford is? Simply that she is the push behind the Union Station Alliance's proposal speaks tons for it's potential for success. If anyone actually cares for the preservation and activation of Union Station, it's her.
Meanwhile, the Union Station Neighborhood Company's proposal has a market going for it (which is a great idea, but I'm not sure about the size), and nothing more. The company is simply not focused on Union Station, there winning transit design marginalized it, and are more focused on ensuring the success of the North and South Wing buildings as well as the two large tower that will be behind Union Station. This is where they want the activity to be, not in Union Station.
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RTD to sell out transit users and history for $65 million.
