Moving to Denver or Pueblo (Colorado Springs, Fort Collins: best neighborhoods, violent crime, how much)

[Mike from back east]

Kool, the small town of Fountain, CO sits right near Fort Carson. It is a solid and stabile community with a lot of Army/AF families. Prime location for access to jobs at Fort Carson, Peterson AFB, Schreiver AFB and contractor jobs, not to mention the PX, Commissary, medical and clubs. I just did this search on 3BR homes there in the range of $100k to $175k and got 66 hits. Bound to be something there for you. If your limit is $200k, you can always offer $200k for an even nicer home priced at $225k and likely get it for $200k in this market. The D8 school district in Fountain is a very good one; the D2 district down there does not have a good reputation at this time.

You need to come see this region before making any decisions; in fact, we suggest that most people rent for a year to make sure they make the best selection for a long-term relocation.

[wong21fr]

Jossepie is the resident Pueblo cheerleader and he says must be taken with a grain of salt. Yes, he does provide some relevant information, but he truly believes that Pueblo is a far, far, far greater and more important city than it really is.

Koolcypher, you can easily find a house within the Denver Metro Area in your price range and Pueblo would be no problem as well due to the dirt-cheap cost of living in that MSA. However, it's dirt-cheap for a reason: you're employment opportunities, social environment, and cultural amenities are a lot less desirable.

You're a veteran with a desire to teach and will need a CO teaching certificate as well as additional education and training. The primary producers of teachers in CO are the University of Northern Colorado, Metropolitan State College of Denver, and the University of Colorado-Denver. Two of these schools are located in the Denver MSA while the other, UNC, is in Greeley. Immediate employment isn't an issue, but you need to look for school districts that a) have favorable demographics to ensure continued pupil enrollment, thus a need for new teachers, and b) are not facing a fiscal crisis. Plus, you have a child and I assume that you will want to get them into a decent school district as well. These factors should have you look more at the Denver MSA area with a focus on counties such as Douglas, Arapahoe, Jefferson, or even Denver.

The Denver MSA has a sizable number of defense contractors that could provide you with a fallback option, but if you're not carrying a TS with a vallid SSBI, a lot of them won't give you the time of day. Pueblo doesn't have this industry is any sizable form, though you could commute up to Colorado Springs. Also, consider the other facilities you might need as a veteran such as commissaries and health care. The main VA hospital in CO is in the Denver MSA and the major satellite facility is in Colorado Springs. Pueblo's facility inadequate. Both Denver and Colorado Springs have military facilities with commissaries, BX/PX's, etc that retirees can utilize. Pueblo does not have these.

Both areas have their advantages and disadvantages. But, considering what you are looking for, the Denver MSA is probably a better fit for you and will give you a better opportunity to pursue your post-retirement career.

[Josseppie]

Wong does not give Pueblo enough credit on its social environment and cultural amenities and jobs in one of our colleges but he does make a good point about a VA hospital. While Pueblo does have a nice 4 story VA medical clinic it is defiantly not big enough for the Pueblo market. They are supposedly going to build a new one but with this economy who knows when that will happen. That being said my understanding is the care given there is good, its just busy, but since I am not a military veteran I have never used the facility myself.

Finally I want to add that if you want to teach in k-12 you will need a teaching certificate but if you want to teach on the college level I don't believe you need one. I have a masters in business administration and I have been told that I can teach on the college level. Perhaps someone who is more familiar with this can elaborate on what it takes to teach on the college level.

[wong21fr]

^Jossepie, Pueblo has a 9.4% unemployment rate and a labor force of 77K. The Denver MSA has an unemployment rate of 7.8% and a labor force of 1.4 million. The figures don't lie, there's simply more opportunity and greater demand in the Denver MSA for jobs than there is in Pueblo. I just have to use figures instead of petty booster-ism to give credit where credit is due. The statistical data, asides from home prices and cost of living, is better outside of Pueblo. If someone is looking at living on the Eastern Plains versus Pueblo, the data favors Pueblo. But otherwise....

Anyone with a post-graduate degree can teach in higher education as an adjunct (hell, if you know the right person the post-graduate degree isn't even necessary). The problem lies in getting hired. Again, there are far more higher education institutions in the Denver MSA where one can be hired as an adjunct.

[davebarnes]

Originally Posted by Josseppie

what it takes to teach on the college level.

Not much. cf. Ward Churchill Ward Churchill - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

[Josseppie]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

^Jossepie, Pueblo has a 9.4% unemployment rate and a labor force of 77K. The Denver MSA has an unemployment rate of 7.8% and a labor force of 1.4 million. The figures don't lie, there's simply more opportunity and greater demand in the Denver MSA for jobs than there is in Pueblo. I simply have to use figures instead of petty booster-ism to give credit where credit is due. The statistical data, asides from home prices and cost of living, is better outside of Pueblo. If someone is looking at living on the Eastern Plains versus Pueblo, the data favors Pueblo. But otherwise....

Anyone with a post-graduate degree can teach in higher education as an adjunct. The problem lies in getting hired. Again, there are far more higher education institutions in the Denver MSA where one can be hired as an adjunct.

There are more jobs in Denver with more people looking for the jobs. Plus until he finds a job it would be much easier to live on $3,000 a month in Pueblo then it would be in Denver. Finally if he is willing to work at a smaller college at first, like a Colorado Technical University, then it would not be that hard to find a job in Pueblo as there are 3 of them all located in a short driving distance. Pueblo does lack in certain areas for jobs but higher education is not one of them.

[wong21fr]

^As I said, the cost of living (including home prices) is the one advantage of Pueblo over the Denver MSA. However, even looking at adjunct higher education positions, the advantage would be in the Denver MSA. There are far more schools within a reasonable driving distance, including diploma mills like Colorado Technical University, where an adjunct would find work. If we were talking healthcare I would say that Pueblo isn't lacking, but there aren't enough colleges around Pueblo for an adjunct to find work.

The data doesn't lie. It's harder to find a job in Pueblo than in the Denver MSA and there are less choices.

[Josseppie]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

^As I said, the cost of living (including home prices) is the one advantage of Pueblo over the Denver MSA. However, even looking at adjunct higher education positions, the advantage would be in the Denver MSA. There are far more schools within a reasonable driving distance, including diploma mills like Colorado Technical University, where an adjunct would find work. If we were talking healthcare I would say that Pueblo isn't lacking, but there aren't enough colleges around Pueblo for an adjunct to find work.

The data doesn't lie. It's harder to find a job in Pueblo than in the Denver MSA and there are less choices.

One thing the numbers don't show is the number of people looking for a job in higher Ed in Denver versus Pueblo. With my MBA I have been told when I want a job I just need to apply.

[McGowdog]

Originally Posted by Josseppie

With my MBA I have been told when I want a job I just need to apply.

But to be honest, if you want to get the job in Pueblo, you have to lie. Instead of listing your college credentials, instead of saying, MBA, BS, BA, etc. you have to say "some college" and state which high school you went to. Then you'll get the job. Having a degree on your resume is not an asset in Pueblo. At least that's been my recent experience.

I have the job now and am using my BS from Metro State to jump a classification. But it will be a long time before I'm in a position to use the skills I learned in college, if ever. There used to be a company down here called Eupec. I applied there and didn't get the job because I wasn't a software engineer with 10+ years of experience. They shut down and tech folks from there came out to apply for jobs we posted in my brother's small company down in Colorado City.

Denver is better than Pueblo. No doubt about it. So is Colorado Springs. But if you can come to Pueblo and make a decent wage, it's not too bad down here. Just south of Pueblo to the New Mexico border is like the untapped Front Range. Take a drive south of Colorado City and head to Trinidad and you'll see what I mean.

[Koolcypher]

Originally Posted by McGowdog

But to be honest, if you want to get the job in Pueblo, you have to lie. Instead of listing your college credentials, instead of saying, MBA, BS, BA, etc. you have to say "some college" and state which high school you went to. Then you'll get the job. Having a degree on your resume is not an asset in Pueblo. At least that's been my recent experience.

I have the job now and am using my BS from Metro State to jump a classification. But it will be a long time before I'm in a position to use the skills I learned in college, if ever. There used to be a company down here called Eupec. I applied there and didn't get the job because I wasn't a software engineer with 10+ years of experience. They shut down and tech folks from there came out to apply for jobs we posted in my brother's small company down in Colorado City.

Denver is better than Pueblo. No doubt about it. So is Colorado Springs. But if you can come to Pueblo and make a decent wage, it's not too bad down here. Just south of Pueblo to the New Mexico border is like the untapped Front Range. Take a drive south of Colorado City and head to Trinidad and you'll see what I mean.

Thanks for the input, right now we are gathering all the information we can about the area and so forth. Our main priorities are good schools, job availability and cost-of-living. I have a masters degree in public administration from Northwestern University, and that could serve me well in finding adjunct work, or government jobs. Also, Northwestern has an alumni club there in Denver so that might help as well, I'm exploring all options. I also want to take advantage of my clearance, I currently hold an active TS/SCI with poly clearance issued by the NSA, so that is another avenue as well.

We will get a better feel of the area once we visit there in April. We really like that the area is open to people with diverse backgrounds, although we are not Mexicans, we are Hispanics. (I was born in Nicaragua, but moved to the States at age 6). Therefore, we would like an area that is welcoming. Last year we visited Kentucky and Tennessee, and I cannot even tell you how many times we were stopped by the police for "normal check-ups", nothing wrong with that, but it gets annoying after a while. Don't get mad, I still love Tennessee and Kentucky, both beautiful states and beautiful people .