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Old 01-06-2012, 03:09 PM
 
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
7,142 posts, read 8,839,499 times
Reputation: 7732

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Quote:
Originally Posted by denverian View Post
If you hate Denver, don't come here and leave the Denver forum alone. There are plenty of places in this country I don't care for, so I don't post in their forums.
Likewise there are plenty of places in this country that I don't care for, so I don't post in their forums. But Denver is not one of those places, so I will probably continue to post here. As long as it's a free and open forum anyway.
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Old 01-08-2012, 10:50 PM
 
19 posts, read 35,569 times
Reputation: 31
Quote:
Originally Posted by denverian View Post
lol! No, you were talking about poor craftsmanship in new home construction and posted pictures of a house that's not in Stapleton. The thread had nothing to do with poor craftsmanship or problems with Stapleton homes. It was about builders pulling out during a recession, and that's no longer an issue in Stapleton. Apples, Oranges.

I think people just get tired of your negativity and exaggeration to try and paint everything Denver in a negative light, even though you don't live here or see anything here in person. If you hate Denver, don't come here and leave the Denver forum alone. There are plenty of places in this country I don't care for, so I don't post in their forums.
Agree. Also, every builder is different, some have good reputations, others less good, so to paint with such broad strokes is a little simplistic. I also don't think anyone has shown any proof that in the "good old days," homes were significantly "better" than what is being built in stapleton today. Some of the bungalows I have toured in Wash Park and Park Hill were literally rotting from water damage, and many others have been torn down, likely for a whole host of reasons. Others are still doing great and look fantastic. Every builder/house is different, subjec to myriad site conditions and environmental factors.

Stapleton has held its value fairly well despite a historically bad market, to think it will magically cave in on itself is simply silly. Indeed, any of the things people don't like about stapleton (the lack of mature trees, the lack of full development, the lack of light rail, and better walkability) will in all likelihood get significantly better in 10-15 years, offsetting some downsides of that allegedly "shoddy" construction.

Kaboom's just a troll, I don't know why people around here let him bother them.
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Old 01-09-2012, 09:53 PM
WiW
 
Location: Denver CO
167 posts, read 514,447 times
Reputation: 106
Quote:
Originally Posted by HoyaSoxa View Post
.... and many others have been torn down, likely for a whole host of reasons. ...
It is called "survival bias", I think. When people think that old houses are all great, they're not seeing all the bad ones that didn't survive.
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Old 01-10-2012, 08:25 PM
 
Location: Denver
90 posts, read 338,350 times
Reputation: 104
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradburn1 View Post
Well, if older new urbanist neighborhoods are any indication--it will be awesome as will be my neighborhood, Bradburn Village. The Kentlands in Maryland started building in 1990 and is very successful--

Kentlands, Gaithersburg, Maryland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I grew up in the Kentlands as a kid, middle school to college and even visited my parents afterward. It was an outstanding neighborhood in every possible sense of the word.

I recently visited there in summer of 2011 to walk down my old street to recapture my memories. STILL the same outstanding neighborhood as before. Simply friggin' incredible, in my personal opinion.

Stapleton lacks the character of the Kentlands (the trees, lakes, design of the streets, the terrain and even the shopping) but it seems to have the strength of the community environment going for it like Kentlands did. I think when Stapleton ages and the trees get bigger, it will start to come into it's own a little and probably retain the same strong community atmosphere. And one thing Stapleton will have over Kentlands: nicer, less pretentious people.
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Old 01-11-2012, 09:50 AM
 
694 posts, read 1,788,652 times
Reputation: 479
Thanks Cory, that's really interesting to me. I've spoken in the past with people who live/lived in the Kentlands and they all loved it, but interestingly two of them also mentioned feeling some people there were pretentious, I wonder why?

In my 13 years in Colorado, I can only count maybe 3 people I thought were this way and there certainly none I think of that way in my current new urbanist neighborhood--even in the most expensive homes. Everyone is very cool and laid back.
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Old 01-11-2012, 06:49 PM
WiW
 
Location: Denver CO
167 posts, read 514,447 times
Reputation: 106
Here is an article comparing Park Hill from a 100 years ago & today.
What a Fool Believes... : Column by Todd Ziebarth : Terrain.org
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Old 01-12-2012, 07:13 PM
 
2,818 posts, read 3,332,025 times
Reputation: 3015
Quote:
Originally Posted by Bradburn1 View Post
Well, if older new urbanist neighborhoods are any indication--it will be awesome as will be my neighborhood, Bradburn Village. The Kentlands in Maryland started building in 1990 and is very successful--

Kentlands, Gaithersburg, Maryland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Demographic and economic trends point to people wanting walkable neighborhoods with a community feel and there is currently a significant shortage of these types of communities for a variety of reasons (they are more complicated to build, suburban zoning laws, what types of projects banks will finance)
....

Some of the most desirable (and expensive) Denver city neighborhoods are walkable "old urbanism": Washington Park, the Highlands, Bonnie Brae, Cherry Creek, etc. It's the same in every city. Neighborhoods that are walkable with nice architecture command a price premium, new urbanism differs in that the houses are new and the schools are generally better (although not always), but the idea is the same--people want neighborhoods designed for people, not cars and they are willing to pay for it. My neighborhood is directly adjacent to a large lot, standard suburban beige box neighborhood. Our houses sell for 30-80 dollars more per sq foot than houses in that neighborhood.
The economic argument is silly. That simply says you will be paying more in taxes for the same size house- not necessarily receiving value. If you are referring to "gain", you won't have any unless you can command an even higher price when you sell. The "per square foot" commoditization of housing fails to recognize the differences in the land.

One hugely undesirable aspect of every one of these "new urbanism" labeled projects is that there is always at least one and often multiple HOAs that owners are forced to be members of.

Aside from all the other problems that stem from HOA-burdened property, the economic argument needs to consider all the assessments, special assessments, "community enhancement fees", "architectural committee fees", transfer fees, litigation costs, and other carrying costs that are inherent with HOA-burdened housing.

By what measure is Kentlands "successful"?

The Tragedy of Kentlands
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Old 02-21-2012, 09:18 AM
WiW
 
Location: Denver CO
167 posts, read 514,447 times
Reputation: 106
An article on some current issues in Stapleton. The comments almost more interesting than the article.

As Stapleton neighborhood prepares to expand north, residents want south projects finished - The Denver Post
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Old 02-21-2012, 11:23 AM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,174 posts, read 23,209,335 times
Reputation: 10428
Quote:
Originally Posted by WiW View Post
An article on some current issues in Stapleton. The comments almost more interesting than the article.

As Stapleton neighborhood prepares to expand north, residents want south projects finished - The Denver Post
I live in Stapleton and am disappointed that the Eastbridge town center hasn't been built, but I understand the recent economic conditions. My biggest gripe is that is seems like they build in an area, and move on without completing the first area. There are a lot of "holes", especially along MLK.

But it's still a great place to live and raise kids. I love it here.
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Old 03-27-2015, 10:33 PM
 
Location: Stapleton (Denver)
52 posts, read 60,495 times
Reputation: 68
A 2015 bump of this thread. The OP was from 2011, but it's equally applicable if one extends further back to the 2003 original development near the 29th St town center, farmer's market, etc.

What has gone right (all IMO):

Quote:
1) Anschutz medical center was completed ~2008, iirc, and is now a large employer. I don't think there's any better neighborhood for those working there, given the constraints of what yuppies (me included) want.

2) Schools have been built out at an acceptable rate, and the DPS policies have evolved such that Stapleton residents' kids are guaranteed a spot at one of the Stapleton schools, albeit not the one that's in closest physical proximity. There's still a lottery for the remainder of spots for kids from other DPS regions. The school quality has turned out to be excellent per greatschools.org, which is as much a reflection of the demographics of the families who chose to/could afford to move to the neighborhood as anything else. For whatever the underlying reason, the net result is that public schools are a very viable option for Stapleton residents.

3) Although it took a few years longer than planned pre-recession, the southern neighborhoods are finally filling in. Eastbridge town center is moving forward, +/- neighborhood NIMBYism about the placement of the gas station. The vacant lots along MLK and the control tower have plans, and many of the lots are now being actively built upon with townhouses and income-controlled housing.

4) Berkshire is consistently delicious, although I bemoan that they dropped Opentable due to cutting costs. I also haven't found other truly local restaurants that I like as much, with Chai & Chai only an honorable mention due to slow delivery and an inconvenient-for-dinner location on the Anschutz campus.

5) North-side development is coming along nicely. Conservatory Green is basically fully sold and built, and Willow Park East even further north yet is a site of much active building, including of the greenspace and underlying road/path infrastructure.

6) Stapleton park and ride is already useful as a car-dropping point to take the Route AS to DIA. Note that one can buy tickets at a slight discount, and with a credit card, at the Quebec St King Soopers at the customer service desk once one waits out the check-cashing crew also in line. The park and ride will be even more useful once light rail opens next year, connecting to both downtown (and the other lines) and the airport.
What has gone wrong:

Quote:
1) Until Eastbridge Town Center opens the Eastbridge and Bluff Lake neighborhoods have parks, pools, but no local businesses whatsoever.

2) Poor road planning decisions. One would be the still-uncompleted-yet-planned-in-perpetuity extension of MLK to Peoria St. As it is now, traffic heading east is funneled on a bunch of 25-30 mph roads with 4 way stop signs through Aurora residential neighborhoods. The other glaring one would be the configuration of Iola crossing 25th St--add in traffic to the Aurora elementary school there and it's a huge mess that I intentionally avoid completely.

3) Some builders have really tried to push the small lot concept too far. See narrow-as-a-stick David Weekley lots and houses in Bluff Lake. Perhaps they'll find buyers, and perhaps they won't.

4) There exists a bit of a hole in the middle of the market ($400-600k) for the north of I-70 developers. There's KB on the low end, Parkwood and Infinity on the high, but not a tremendous amount in the middle. Standard Pacific has weird, narrow designs that prioritize style. Boulder Creek focuses on the retiree crowd, and main floor masters and extra HOAs that take care of one's roof and snow shoveling in a condo-esque manner are not for everyone. New Town Builders comes closest to hitting the sweet spot, and after their end-of-2014 price cut (!) they're a reasonable in between option with a high-efficiency twist.

5) Most sub-neighborhoods are very car-centric in reality apart from the jaunts to the airport as above. I bike commute whenever I can, but I have read stats that over 90% of trips in Stapleton are via car.
My verdict, noting that I currently rent in Eastbridge: I am convinced enough of the future prospects of Stapleton as a whole that I recently put earnest money down for a Willow Park East lot with New Town Builders. The resale market is biased towards sellers with the current inventory situation, and it's galling to see what people who purchased in 2009 and 2010 are now asking, bereft of major upgrades to justify their asking price.

We're going the whole net zero energy route with the new build and hope that this will be the first and last house that we purchase... and yes, I'm definitely going to hire an independent inspector to make sure that the inevitable shortcuts taken by the subcontractors are remedied appropriately. I'm not blinded by my love for the neighborhood, but for me it seems much more attractive than sitting in my car commuting from another development or neighborhood (e.g. East Iliff or Cherry Creek) or dealing with old construction in a climate with such large temperature variation as is found in Denver.
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