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Old 01-31-2012, 12:10 PM
 
2,279 posts, read 3,973,533 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willy702 View Post
Incomes are NOT low in Denver compared to national averages which is why housing is relatively high for an area with lots of open land not too far out on the eastern fringes of town.
I don't think I agree with this. As dave barnes post indicates, Denver is pretty low on the list in terms of affordability in housing prices.

Salaries are relatively low here, they have not caught up with the rapid growth the city has experienced in the last decade. I can get a job in Detroit Metro making what I make now, but I can get a nice house for about 1/3 of the cost. Heck, I could probably buy several houses in Detroit Metro for what one would cost here. The point is, I feel that salaries aren't quite where they should be in a city like Denver, where COL is edging closer and closer to a Chicago.
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Old 01-31-2012, 12:13 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Aguilar View Post
I don't live far from Hampden/Tamarac, there is absolutely nothing wrong with this area.

Places that IMO are a good value (and meet what I would think would be the minimum general definition of "safety"):

the older parts of Arvada
Aurora 80013, 80014, 80015
old Englewood
much of Lakewood
Littleton/Denver 80123
Northglenn/Thornton 80233
the older parts of Westminster
Wheat Ridge

notice that pretty much nowhere in c/c of Denver is on this list: the only truly affordable parts are on the west side of town south of Colfax (Harvey Park South/Bear Valley can be good values), north and NE of downtown, Montbello/GVR, and the East Colfax neighborhood, none of which are considered all that "safe" for the most part.
I need to get near DTC, so I'm thinking Aurora or Littleton might be the places to look. Excellent post though.
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Old 01-31-2012, 12:15 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by distinctivedman View Post
There is also a program that creates below market priced homes for buyers who make less than the area median income households. Search for Denver affordable housing program on google. These can often be found in some of the best neighborhoods in Denver, Like Stapleton, Lowry and Downtown.
I wouldn't qualify for those, more than likely. You have to be pretty poor to get into those houses/apts. I'm not poor, but I'm not wealthy either. I'm that person in the middle who can't get public assistance, but can't afford much house either. The joys of being in your 20s.
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Old 01-31-2012, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Berkeley Neighborhood, Denver, CO USA
17,711 posts, read 29,823,179 times
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Default Data are your friends

Quote:
Originally Posted by Z3N1TH 0N3 View Post
Salaries are relatively low here
I am not sure about that.
Two-Year-Average1 Median Household Income by State
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/incom...atemhi2_10.xls
says Colorado is ranked #5.
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Old 01-31-2012, 02:50 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by davebarnes View Post
I am not sure about that.
Two-Year-Average1 Median Household Income by State
http://www.census.gov/hhes/www/incom...atemhi2_10.xls
says Colorado is ranked #5.
You're right. Data is your friend.

You will notice, from the chart you linked, that household incomes dropped in Colorado from 2007-2010.

Also, household incomes are just that: household. Is that dual incomes? Single person incomes?

Keep in mind, those incomes are for the entire state. So that includes all those wealth pockets scattered throughout the mountains. I'd be willing to bet that Denver's median incomes are not quite that much. In fact, C-D figures that the median household income in Denver is about $46,410. That's more in the range of what I make per year.

Most people aren't making anywhere near the figures shown in their 20s.

Last edited by Z3N1TH 0N3; 01-31-2012 at 03:04 PM..
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Old 01-31-2012, 03:36 PM
 
6,385 posts, read 11,886,305 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Z3N1TH 0N3 View Post
You're right. Data is your friend.

You will notice, from the chart you linked, that household incomes dropped in Colorado from 2007-2010.

Also, household incomes are just that: household. Is that dual incomes? Single person incomes?

Keep in mind, those incomes are for the entire state. So that includes all those wealth pockets scattered throughout the mountains. I'd be willing to bet that Denver's median incomes are not quite that much. In fact, C-D figures that the median household income in Denver is about $46,410. That's more in the range of what I make per year.

Most people aren't making anywhere near the figures shown in their 20s.
So we are supposed to believe you, not data? Come on, I'll go with data. Here's more evidence you can try to refute

Highest-income metropolitan statistical areas in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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Old 01-31-2012, 04:02 PM
 
2,279 posts, read 3,973,533 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Willy702 View Post
So we are supposed to believe you, not data? Come on, I'll go with data. Here's more evidence you can try to refute

Highest-income metropolitan statistical areas in the United States - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
A) I find it hard to believe that Denver's median household income is above New York's or Chicago's. Did that not raise a red flag with you?

B) I don't like household income as an indicator of individual wealth in a city, because that accounts for family incomes. What about the single guys? Heck, if my gf lived with me, I guess our household income would be on par with your data. My complaint was never that family incomes are low in Denver. My complaint is that individual salaries seem low here relative to home values.

C) Assuming this data is accurate, $50k/yr does not seem like a lot when you have a mortgage, possibly a car payment, don't even think about kids. From what I've seen, home values in decent neighborhoods are astronomical. I think most homes here go for $200k+ in these decent neighborhoods. If you made $50k, which I don't yet, you could reasonably afford a $200k home on your salary, but you aren't going to afford a car payment, kids, or a decent savings fund. You'd just be scraping by, like my friend was when he had a car payment and a mortgage for a home in the Bear Valley area.

Last edited by Z3N1TH 0N3; 01-31-2012 at 04:41 PM..
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Old 01-31-2012, 06:42 PM
 
Location: Arvada, CO
13,827 posts, read 29,939,634 times
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Denver is in a tier below the truly expensive cities, like LA, SF, Seattle, NY, Boston, etc. (LA, $59,736 median HH income vs $383,100 home value )

Denver's housing (not looking at incomes) is not as affordable as Chicago, Minneapolis, other major cities in the Midwest or Texas.

According to Zillow's Home Value Index, the US is at $147,800. Denver metro is at $203,600.

Incomes:
US median household, $51,914
Denver metro median household, $60,137

US mean household, $70,883
Denver metro mean household, $79,717

Per capita:
US: $27,334
Denver metro: $32,173

Median earnings for workers:
US: $29,701
Denver metro: $34,144

Median earnings for full-time, year round, male workers:
US: $46,478
Denver: $51,414

Selected monthly owner costs for housing units with a mortgage (basically everything you pay for housing, explanation here (page 31): http://www.census.gov/acs/www/Downlo...efinitions.pdf:
US: $1,524, 35.2% of median household income
Denver metro: $1,734, 34.6% of median household income


vs. per capita:
US: 66.9%
Denver: 64.7%

vs. full-time, year round, male workers:
US: 39.3%
Denver: 40.5%


^So, it looks as though Denver is in a better position than the nation as a whole, when it comes to housing affordability vs. median household incomes and per capita, but not vs. full-time year round male workers.

The good thing about Denver metro homes, is that property taxes are generally much lower than the national average.
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Last edited by Count David; 01-31-2012 at 06:50 PM..
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Old 01-31-2012, 08:15 PM
 
2,279 posts, read 3,973,533 times
Reputation: 1669
Quote:
Originally Posted by David Aguilar View Post
Denver is in a tier below the truly expensive cities, like LA, SF, Seattle, NY, Boston, etc. (LA, $59,736 median HH income vs $383,100 home value )

Denver's housing (not looking at incomes) is not as affordable as Chicago, Minneapolis, other major cities in the Midwest or Texas.

According to Zillow's Home Value Index, the US is at $147,800. Denver metro is at $203,600.

Incomes:
US median household, $51,914
Denver metro median household, $60,137

US mean household, $70,883
Denver metro mean household, $79,717

Per capita:
US: $27,334
Denver metro: $32,173

Median earnings for workers:
US: $29,701
Denver metro: $34,144

Median earnings for full-time, year round, male workers:
US: $46,478
Denver: $51,414

Selected monthly owner costs for housing units with a mortgage (basically everything you pay for housing, explanation here (page 31): http://www.census.gov/acs/www/Downlo...efinitions.pdf:
US: $1,524, 35.2% of median household income
Denver metro: $1,734, 34.6% of median household income


vs. per capita:
US: 66.9%
Denver: 64.7%

vs. full-time, year round, male workers:
US: 39.3%
Denver: 40.5%


^So, it looks as though Denver is in a better position than the nation as a whole, when it comes to housing affordability vs. median household incomes and per capita, but not vs. full-time year round male workers.

The good thing about Denver metro homes, is that property taxes are generally much lower than the national average.
As usual, great post!
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Old 02-01-2012, 04:43 AM
 
4,738 posts, read 4,434,679 times
Reputation: 2485
BankRate has a decent mortgage calculator, but I don't see how 200,000 equals a 2,000 payment on a 30year loan no matter what calculator. If you did 15 year maybe. . .

400,000 at 30 years at today's interest rates get you a 2,000 a month payment.

Plus, interest is tax deductible. .depending on size of the home this could net you another few hundred a month.
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