Denver traffic 13th worst in U.S. (Castle Rock, Center: home, live)

[McGowdog]

Originally Posted by wxjay

On the other end, here in Atlanta - UNBELIEVEABLE TRAFFIC.

But to rank higher than Boston? Pssh.

How about that Spaghetti Junction northbound come 5:00 pm?

I drove through Denver from north to south sometime in late August last year (06') and it was the first time that I'd experienced the completed T-REX. It was actually kind of nice.

LA is statistically among the worst. I was driving from Zuma Beach or Malibu to Hollywood via Pac Hwy 1 to Santa Monica Fwy. As I was going, I could have turned off onto Sunset Blvd if I were in the right lane. Getting back around was NOT an option.

It was about 4:45 pm at the time. Sunset Blvd is no picnic, mind you. As I crossed that street, my stupid Garmin said, "alternate route advised". I said, "shut up, Meatwad!" It instructed me to go to the 10. I could have turned up Santa Monica Blvd, for that matter. As I got onto this freeway, I experienced "Traffic"! It took me an hour to go 3 miles!

My take; 13th ain't that bad!
My other take; LA isn't that bad if you're smarter than the stupid Garmin. You have options. If you're a local, you know the little secrets.

[hello-world]

Originally Posted by cil

Our older son got his license before that new law, some of my younger son's friends used MasterDrive but we used something cheaper and more generic, can't remember what it was (both boys July birthdays, but not the 4th. )
Younger kid had 2 years of winter driving until we moved here, where he has actually had much more time on the highway than he did in Denver.

I agree that stats can be read different ways, achieving different sorts of spin. Denver traffic is much, much worse than it was 20-30 years ago, and in the last years before we left in fall of '05, it was hellacious.

There are simply more people, and more drivers.

The I-25 of today, south of Denver, is hopefully a bit different now with T-Rex done.
My husband often had to go to the Springs when we lived in Denver, and he usually took back roads to get home. I-25 north of Denver is far busier now than it was when I was at CSU; there are far more residents.

It's the increase in beserko drivers that I noticed most before we left.
At one point we considered letting our younger son ride his bike to middle school. I studied the traffic at 3rd and Colorado Blvd for a couple days.
I would count 4, 5, 6, 7 people running red lights. We decided against it.

The Cherry Creek neighborhood (we lived within walking distance) used to be this quiet, quaint little enclave of mom and pop shops (when the Tattered Cover was just a hole in the wall) and Third Avenue was one of my favorite across-town shortcuts. Now it is a trendy parking nightmare and a dodgy situation for pedestrians whenever they try to cross the street.
A Bromwell student was hit by a car on the racetrack of Josephine St and sustained a broken pelvis. Speer Boulevard has always been bad.
My sister-in-law no longer shops at Cherry Creek.

Colorado Boulevard, a hideous stretch of asphalt, was never all that fun, and now it's worse. University Boulevard used to be a pleasure. Not anymore.
I-70 really can be like a parking lot.

Having said all that, I've experienced traffic in SoCal and Boston.
It's pretty bad!
I can see how some Colorado newbies would feel relief if they are relocating from Boston and other places.
What this says about where Denver is in terms of quality of life, and where it might be headed, I am not sure.
These growing pains are certainly not exclusively Denver's.

i don't know if it's "berzerko" drivers, little standard due to no driver's ed and lax licensing, the blend of lots of people from way rural and way urban places, growing pains, a blend or what, but it just seems that the RANGE of driving habits is wider, and tendency to ADAPT to and learn from situations seems lower, than in any city i've lived.

[Katiana]

I've been at work all day, no time to post. I do not remember the name of the driver's ed program for either daughter; the first company went out of business. Classes were in Boulder. Younger DD went to Front Range Comm. Coll. for the class but they were not the sponsor.

I think one problem with the Denver drivers is so many people from so many places, all bringing their own bad habits with them, in addition to picking up new bad habits once here.

[downtownnola]

Originally Posted by hello-world

i don't know if it's "berzerko" drivers, little standard due to no driver's ed and lax licensing, the blend of lots of people from way rural and way urban places, growing pains, a blend or what, but it just seems that the RANGE of driving habits is wider, and tendency to ADAPT to and learn from situations seems lower, than in any city i've lived.

There's alot of truth to this. In most cities, there seems to be a collective understanding among drivers. Not in Denver... I've never seen a city where there are so many driving styles. It's not uncommon to see some people creeping along the highway at 55mph while others are driving 80+ all at the same time. Then throw in the tailgaters, weavers, etc... That's just an accident waiting to happen!

The difference between Denver and places like say, L.A. or Boston is that those places have been big since the invention of the automobile. People in those cities have always been used to driving in heavy traffic. Up until a couple decades ago, Denver was still a relatively quiet city and driving at a slower pace was the norm. Over the past 20 years or so, Denver's population boomed and I don't think that some of the long time residents have adapted to the faster pace and increased congestion so well. This is just a theory.

[BlueWillowPlate]

Originally Posted by downtownnola

Over the past 20 years or so, Denver's population boomed and I don't think that some of the long time residents have adapted to the faster pace and increased congestion so well. This is just a theory.

Yes.
As I said before in post #26, there are simply more people and more drivers.

This has been going on for some time, and everyone has been aware of the melting pot situation, it's just that it's worse than ever now.

I am one of those long-time residents who was not crazy about the faster pace. When a lady in a gold Mercedes turns, without even looking, into you, a pedestrian who has the right of way, it can tend to be a bit disheartening.
I think Denver is trying to deal with this traffic challenge, but Denver always wanted to be a "world class" city.
As this status is achieved, I suppose it is kind of hard to hang on to some of the smaller-town qualities.

[hello-world]

Originally Posted by cil

Yes.
As I said before in post #26, there are simply more people and more drivers.

This has been going on for some time, and everyone has been aware of the melting pot situation, it's just that it's worse than ever now.

I am one of those long-time residents who was not crazy about the faster pace. When a lady in a gold Mercedes turns, without even looking, into you, a pedestrian who has the right of way, it can tend to be a bit disheartening.
I think Denver is trying to deal with this traffic challenge, but Denver always wanted to be a "world class" city.
As this status is achieved, I suppose it is kind of hard to hang on to some of the smaller-town qualities.

let's keep in mind that there are a LOT of cities that are far more "melting pot" than denver is. maybe denver's a melting pot of a particular couple of subsections of humanity (plenty from much smaller towns, for example) and so a tougher blend for the traffic situation than might otherwise already exist in denver? and does it have anything to do with how population is distributed, traffic is controlled, licensing practices, and which laws are actually enforced in and around denver on top of it's particular people-mix?

in the end, seems to me like denver could be better, but could also be way worse, traffic-wise...

[CareFreeAZ]

Not that I want to change the subject about Denver Traffic, but somebody mentioned the lax in licensing in Colorado. When I moved to Arizona from Oregon numerous years ago I was in my late 20's. My current license does not expire/have to be renewed until you reach 65(very lax licensing program). In Oregon you had to renew your license every 4 years.

[BlueWillowPlate]

Originally Posted by hello-world

let's keep in mind that there are a LOT of cities that are far more "melting pot" than denver is. maybe denver's a melting pot of a particular couple of subsections of humanity (plenty from much smaller towns, for example) and so a tougher blend for the traffic situation than might otherwise already exist in denver? and does it have anything to do with how population is distributed, traffic is controlled, licensing practices, and which laws are actually enforced in and around denver on top of it's particular people-mix?

in the end, seems to me like denver could be better, but could also be way worse, traffic-wise...

Yes, I think I understand what you mean.
If a lot of the newer folks are living in the 'burbs or outlying communities and must use I-25 or other highways, that can contribute to congestion.
Add different driving styles to that, and frustrating mixed messages will occur.
My mom (a Colorado native who spent many years in NorCal) once got a traffic ticket for doing a "California" stop.

In the years before we left (we left in late '05) there were a lot of young teens killed on the road, and laws were changed to make it much stricter for youngsters to obtain driver's licenses. Should older Colorado drivers be scrutinzed? I know drivers can get into trouble if they get too may points.
As with so many other Americans, Colorado drivers love their vehicles.

Even if mass transit were broadened, I am not sure how much difference it would make because so many people do not want to give up their cars.
Perhaps the "gotta have my own car" mindset will change over time, especially with gas prices skyrocketing.

In terms of the inner city, well, there is only so much parking, and everyone knows how ugly parking lots can be. City planners have tried. Underground as well as covered parking has been built.
In my former little Cherry Creek world, they finally put in paid parking.
There is a bus that does a south Denver/Cherry Creek loop.

I know the speeding laws are enforced along 6th Avenue as well as Speer--of course the speed limits are kept artificially low.
They have to be.

Of course, Denver traffic could be worse than it is. The thing is, I never dreamed that it could or would be as bad as it is now.
What does the future hold?

[hello-world]

Originally Posted by cil

Yes, I think I understand what you mean.
If a lot of the newer folks are living in the 'burbs or outlying communities and must use I-25 or other highways, that can contribute to congestion.
Add different driving styles to that, and frustrating mixed messages will occur.
My mom (a Colorado native who spent many years in NorCal) once got a traffic ticket for doing a "California" stop.

In the years before we left (we left in late '05) there were a lot of young teens killed on the road, and laws were changed to make it much stricter for youngsters to obtain driver's licenses. Should older Colorado drivers be scrutinzed? I know drivers can get into trouble if they get too may points.
As with so many other Americans, Colorado drivers love their vehicles.

Even if mass transit were broadened, I am not sure how much difference it would make because so many people do not want to give up their cars.
Perhaps the "gotta have my own car" mindset will change over time, especially with gas prices skyrocketing.

In terms of the inner city, well, there is only so much parking, and everyone knows how ugly parking lots can be. City planners have tried. Underground as well as covered parking has been built.
In my former little Cherry Creek world, they finally put in paid parking.
There is a bus that does a south Denver/Cherry Creek loop.

I know the speeding laws are enforced along 6th Avenue as well as Speer--of course the speed limits are kept artificially low.
They have to be.

Of course, Denver traffic could be worse than it is. The thing is, I never dreamed that it could or would be as bad as it is now.
What does the future hold?

re the mix of people, i was talking about in part what you suggest - ranchers and suburbanites within the area used to less traffic on the same road. not to disparage ranchers and suburbanites, but i think there can sometimes be some adjustment to urban driving. i was also speaking of the possibility that MANY people MOVE here from smalltown midwestern america (i would guess there is a higher proportion of that than in many/most cmetros denver's size), from smalltown mountain america, AND from mexico, LA, DC, etc - groups of people with WIDELY different senses of "urban", "traffic", etc..

i agree some laws are enforced. with gusto. people get pulled over for a mere 5 MPH above the speed limit sometimes (in 65MPH zone). but i'm thinking people need to be made aware that going 15 MPH BELOW the speed limit and hanging out in the PASSING lane engrossed in a cell phone conversation or daydreaming is not at all a good thing. you do not have to decelerate at the rate at which gravity would work on you while climbing a moderate hill while in a car! because a car is pulled 20 feet off the shoulder does not mean you have slow to a crawl as if it's the first time you've ever seen something within 20 feet of the road before! there are signs indicating that dilly dallying in the left lane is illegal (the dawdling in the passing lane one...though i'd argue the cell phone part might ought to be considered...), and i doubt that one's ever enforced. it IS illegal to tailgate or try to drive someone off the road! i've seen impressive alcohol check points and heard of people being pulled over for them with EVERY excuse in the book (i suspect there are some quotas trying to be met?), while those people were stone cold sober and playing totally by the book because they did not want to be pulled over! not to mention that, for some reason, it seems people in the area all have very different ideas of whether to accelerate or decelerate on acceleration ramps; whether to merge, or not to merge; whether to pull to the passing lane to allow for it or hang out in the right lane oblivious to how to help the situation. whom is supposed to go first when you arrive at a stop light/sign first? etc.. no standard.

re public transport, i do think people wil use it, e.g. along 36. it IS a parking lot during rush hour many times, there ARE regularly accidents on it, people DO notice the horrid "brown cloud" and wonder about it, and gas prices ARE way high. i hear of people talking about "now using the bus" because of these things. but i think you're right, that only goes so far in a population especially in love with their cars and otherwise doing whatever the heck they want when they want. but i wonder whether that would change with time.

thank you. that feels much better now.

[Katiana]

Originally Posted by CareFreeAZ

Not that I want to change the subject about Denver Traffic, but somebody mentioned the lax in licensing in Colorado. When I moved to Arizona from Oregon numerous years ago I was in my late 20's. My current license does not expire/have to be renewed until you reach 65(very lax licensing program). In Oregon you had to renew your license every 4 years.

I actually think it's every ten years. Mine expires in 2012, at which point I will NOT be 65! I know I have renewed a few times since I moved here in 1980.