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Thread summary:

Moving to Denver: holistic health, college, rock climbing school, down payment on a house, affordable.

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Old 10-19-2007, 03:54 PM
 
Location: New York
2,731 posts, read 2,823,742 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pittnurse70 View Post
Just playing devil's advocate again. You can call me "Satana".
Look. I'm leaving NYC. I'm not staying here. I hate it here because it is too expensive and I have to live like a slug even though I make a decent wage.

So..... I have to move somewhere else and it's not going to be Casper, Wyoming or Lawton, Oklahoma.
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Old 10-19-2007, 04:04 PM
 
Location: Foot of the Rockies
86,846 posts, read 102,174,122 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roseba View Post
Look. I'm leaving NYC. I'm not staying here. I hate it here because it is too expensive and I have to live like a slug even though I make a decent wage.

So..... I have to move somewhere else and it's not going to be Casper, Wyoming or Lawton, Oklahoma.
I do not want to discourage you from coming here. You need to be realistic about your expectations. If they are too high, you'll hate it. That happens to a lot of people who come here. I have been here 27 yrs myself, with a year off in Albany. We have been back here for 18 yrs now. We wouldn't have stayed here if we didn't like it. My point is not that you shouldn't leave NYC. I'm sorry for any misunderstanding.
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Old 10-19-2007, 06:26 PM
 
5,090 posts, read 13,498,484 times
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roseba,

I think you are a very interesting person and Denver would be much richer with you here and you would be enriched by the experience.

I would say, from my experience, that people in the West are many times turned off by New Yorkers---and rightly so. They talk too LOUD and too much, want to control all conversation and are brash and tend to brag especially about what New York has and the rest of the world does not and get too easily angered by any slight.

I said, I grew up in Western New York--the City people who came there to go to SUNY Buffalo were as I describe and looked down on the "hick" in Buffalo. I went to school there in the 60s. Western New York has more attitudes that are somewhat different from the New Yorker and the "City" way offended other people.

I came to Colorado from Dallas; I worked for a very large company that was headquarter on 3rd. Avenue in New York, near the United Nations. This company decided to move the corporate headquarter to Dallas. I was elected to meet Executives that were coming to Dallas, for a look and see because I lived in NYC and had an accent. They had all the same attitudes that I described. It was also necessary to give them driving lessons, as many did not drive. Many of them, looked around, complained, and went back to NYC and resigned.

When, I came here, I was accused of talking too Loud on the Phone---I needed to change that behavior. In addiition, it was necessary to mute some hand movements, shoulder movements, and stand a little ways back--in order not to offend others. This is important. I have written about this in other thread. I had, and still have, partially some of the ill behaviors that I decribed.

This past month, I ran across a sales lady in a store who just moved from Carnarsie in Brooklyn. Another salesman confided in me how he, a "native" and others, were having problems with her---she could not see herself, her behavior, all tied together in her oral and body language.

I have also lived and worked in Europe, in the Military and as a Civillian. I was trained the Army as a Translator/Interpreter--so I am somewhat aware of difference in cultural attributes and how they effect languages and regional dialects--these differences are also in this country.

I would suggest, do not change everything, you cannot, and differences makes the world exciting but be aware and cognisant of how others are reacting to you--this can make life in Colorado, so much easier. This is advice from an older person who needed, and still needs, to learn these skills.

"No matter where you go-there you are."

Livecontent
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Old 10-20-2007, 04:50 AM
 
Location: New York
2,731 posts, read 2,823,742 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pittnurse70 View Post
I do not want to discourage you from coming here. You need to be realistic about your expectations. If they are too high, you'll hate it. That happens to a lot of people who come here. I have been here 27 yrs myself, with a year off in Albany. We have been back here for 18 yrs now. We wouldn't have stayed here if we didn't like it. My point is not that you shouldn't leave NYC. I'm sorry for any misunderstanding.
  • Being a kid that grew up just east of Greenwich Village,
  • pursuing a career that was considered a long shot, but a worthy pursuit (opera), followed by disappointment on just how political that world can be,
  • followed by working on Wall street, working a billion hours, putting up with masters of the universe and seeing people who I helped, get huge bonuses while my own was being quibbled about in literal dollars and cents (as if I weren't there at 2am along with the rest of them),
  • only to leave that world for the dot.com world, to see that bust and watch all my colleagues lose their job and watch them get picked off like Russian Roulette over a period of months always wondering who was next,
  • only to sit in a building 500 yards away from the WTC while it was being attacked! and having to find my own means out of that situation,
  • after being downsized after busting my butt for a company that was continually thanked me for sticking with them when they clearly were in a disarray, asking me to hold out a little longer for resolution,
  • after having to downsize my lifestyle, not once, not twice, but thrice.....

I think I have had my share of disappointment.

I don't live in an elite neighborhood. I live in a neighborhood that is ONE STEP away from being a slum. However, I pay $1200 and it is considered cheap. (You can't get a one bedroom anywhere in the Metro area for less than $900 even if you live in the hood).

My apartment is spacious by NY standards, but it is a railroad style which sucks ups a lot of the square footage because of traffic flow.

My apartment has hard wood floors, that haven't been refinished in at least two decades. The splinters come up, and hurt my kids feet. I have resorted to carpeting, and or duct tape to cover any exposed areas that can hurt her.

The electric is so bad in my apartment that I regularly have to take a key, go outside, go to the sidewalk and ask some random passer buyer who is male to life the gate up from the sidewalk, so I can access the dungeon of a basement to flip the circuit breaker, so that I can repower more than half my apartment which is on one line. (the other half on another line.)

I live on a commercial street above a store. So, there is no place to store garbage. That means garbage must be stored in the house. (How wonderfully fragrant in the summer.) Goodness gracious if you happen to forget to take it out one day. Now you are stuck with it for another few days. If it's recycle, you have to wait another week.

The street noise with all the buses and trucks going by is so bad, I can not open the windows. Unless I never want to sleep of course. Lucky for us, we just use the air-conditioner, almost year round to cover the noise. It's great for our $200+ a month electic bill.

My apartment has not been painted in who knows how long. We painted the front rooms when we first moved in (our labor, our dime), but the back rooms are wall papered. Let's just say, it's not my taste and if the rooms were painted, it would look a whole lot better. Let's not even talk about the bubble gum pink wall-wall rug in the living room!

My bathtub is so small, that I can only sit in it. I can't lay down. (And I love my baths.) The landlord hasn't maintained it well. We did all of our own caulking as a courtesy to the store owner that complained about leaks for 5 years prior to moving in. But because the way this thing was installed, there is a huge gap between the tiles and the tub. So the caulking is about 2 inches thick. It looks hideous. Because there was a leak for so long, mold or mildew has had an opportunity to flourish. So we have to constantly be on top of it, more than any other apartment I have ever live in. I'm sure it is very good for our families respiratory tract. All of this luxury for $1200 a month!

I do live two blocks from the subway. It is reliable during the week, and useless on the weekend. This train line doesn't go anywhere near midtown. Luckily I work downtown. I can never go anywhere without taking at least three trains. (Work is two trains and 40 minutes, minimum.)

My parents live 15 minutes away by car, but it will take me an hour and two buses to get to them by bus.

The only eatery that we will order from where we live, is a pizza shop. Nothing else is worth eating. You have Chinese with pictures on the walls which is on par with Chinese restaurants in food courts. No Indian, No Thai, No French. You do have lots of Polish delis if your thing is cold cuts, and Latin American places if you are in the mood for rice and beans. There is one diner that is half-way edible. Forget about ever having an upscale brunch unless we travel out of the neighborhood. If we want Chinese, I stop in Chinatown on my way home from work, and carry the food on the subway for 40 minutes.

There is no place to park a car, unless you want to rent a parking spot (outdoors and usually uncovered) from someone for about $150-$200 a month. Otherwise, one would have to get up every morning before 7 and circle for a parking spot for at least 30 minutes, and hope you get the "right" side of the street. (Alternate side of the street parking is the norm where the "other" side, you'll get a ticket for being parked.) Luckily (or Unfortunately) we don't have a car. It costs too much to insure, maintain and park to justify having something one only uses on the weekend. Though it would be great for food shopping and other excursions that we would do more often if we had one.

There is no cultural activities in the area. If I want to do that, I have to pick up my kid, her stroller, her diapers, her snacks, my snacks and lug us into Manhattan, or Brooklyn and take a 90 minute excursion in, and another 90 return to enjoy anything worthwhile. It's very fatiguing and we usually return home, completely exhausted.

The local playground is OK, except I rarely see kids my daughters age. So often she has to play by herself or with me. She still goes to a lady, rather than a real daycare because I don't have upward of $200 a week to send her to somewhere else. Also, the local daycare is only a few hours a week for 3 year olds and above. Which means if I could send her to daycare, I'd have to bring her on the subway with me every morning. That means she has very little regular contact with kids, and almost no contact with the same kids. (To build her social network and skills.)

And I already mentioned having to drag my laundry out of the house to a laundromat. Not in my basement with coin operated machines. But down the street where I have to fight for an available dryer or be willing to hang out there all day and wait.

So when you keep barraging me with all the negatives about Denver, perhaps you don't understand we have good reason to want to leave NY.

NY is a great place, for people who make upward of $200K a year. It is an absolutely unforgiving place for any family making less than $100K. (We make double the national average by the way, and live pay check to pay check. It's absolutely ridiculous to live this way on what would be considered a relatively high salary for a middle class person.)

I don't think it's too much to say, that the trade offs of living "near" NY are too much. Technically, we live in the boroughs, in the city limits. But the only thing "city" about it, is the decor of the neighborhood. Brick 3 story walk up apartments, dense, and dirty. Little greenery. High rents. Sucky stores. Sucky culture. Substandard apartments and do nothing landlords who only want higher and higher rents. I call it "the inner city burbs". All the things that people don't like about the suburbs, and all the things people don't like about living in the city wrapped up in one little package.

So whether we end up in a chic urban neighborhood, or in a more suburban neighborhood, we are surely going to have a vaste improvement in our quality of life than we have now in either scenario. We don't mind trade offs. We expect trade offs. The trade offs we have to make in Denver certainly couldn't be more than the trade offs we are already making.

Perhaps you imagine NY to be different alla "Sex in the City", or "Friends", which is why you keep dwelling on the negative aspects of Denver. But for the average middle class worker, it's a struggle just to get through the week.

We thought long and hard about this. We'd be living my daughters grandfather, and two grandmothers behind. But we think the sacrifices we continue to make are just too high.

PS: To get your foot in the door on any property that is in a humdrum neighborhood that is at least 2 bedrooms is over $200K. That for a coop, in a large apartment building, out 40-60 minutes from the business districts, where a coop board tells you whether or not you can have a cat or not or whether or not you can sublet your place. I know HOA have rules as well. But, at least you can buy a home with grass and a garage for that or a little more. Here, you need at least $500K, and you'd be very disappointed on the square footage.
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Old 10-21-2007, 08:30 AM
Status: "Celebrating 30 years as a Broker" (set 10 days ago)
 
Location: Just south of Denver since 1989
10,877 posts, read 29,279,915 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roseba View Post
To get your foot in the door on any property that is in a humdrum neighborhood that is at least 2 bedrooms is over $200K.
Then you'll love Denver. There are decent 2 bedrooms for $120,000 to $130,000, not close to being in or near a slum.

Last edited by 2bindenver; 10-21-2007 at 08:31 AM.. Reason: needed my space
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Old 10-21-2007, 09:23 AM
 
Location: New York
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 2bindenver View Post
Then you'll love Denver. There are decent 2 bedrooms for $120,000 to $130,000, not close to being in or near a slum.

That's why we want to move to Denver. A HOUSE, in a hum drum area costs over $500K here.
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Old 10-21-2007, 06:23 PM
DAS
 
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Roseba I'm still following this thread they just don't seem to understand and that is ok because they have never lived in NY. Western NY and Albany are a totally different world from NYC even though it is the same state.

I know for a fact that if you are from NYC that most of the people in the Albany or Buffalo area won't even give you a chance. They just assume that you think they are hicks even you have never had that thought on your mind.

As for SUNY at Buffalo the students from that area usually say to the students from NYC things like " I live in a house and we have a front and back yard". They are usually not nice to the NYC people at all. So the NYC people just stick together, they have to

For the most part there is a big bias against NYers all over the country. Some friends I know that now live in other cities across the US say they never let the cat out of the bag that they are from NYC, if they do, its all over.

You are originally from CT and have lived in Italy for a while so you probably don't have the body language or Brooklyn accent so once you get there just don't start talking about NYC or comparing everything to it at least outside of your home to others.

Most people think NYC is some magical place. Like TV or the movies. So most of the time they are just jealous that you are from there. There is nothing that you can do about that. If they only knew. I know you are telling them and giving them the truth but it is hard to change someones preconceived notions.
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Old 10-21-2007, 06:57 PM
 
Location: New York
2,731 posts, read 2,823,742 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAS View Post
Roseba I'm still following this thread they just don't seem to understand and that is ok because they have never lived in NY. Western NY and Albany are a totally different world from NYC even though it is the same state.

[..]

You are originally from CT and have lived in Italy for a while so you probably don't have the body language or Brooklyn accent so once you get there just don't start talking about NYC or comparing everything to it at least outside of your home to others.

Most people think NYC is some magical place. Like TV or the movies. So most of the time they are just jealous that you are from there. There is nothing that you can do about that. If they only knew. I know you are telling them and giving them the truth but it is hard to change someones preconceived notions.
I'm not from CT. I went to school in Westchester and have friends from NJ. I was born and raised in Manhattan and have lived in Queens and Brooklyn.
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Old 10-21-2007, 07:43 PM
 
5,090 posts, read 13,498,484 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DAS View Post
Roseba I'm still following this thread they just don't seem to understand and that is ok because they have never lived in NY. Western NY and Albany are a totally different world from NYC even though it is the same state.

I know for a fact that if you are from NYC that most of the people in the Albany or Buffalo area won't even give you a chance. They just assume that you think they are hicks even you have never had that thought on your mind.

As for SUNY at Buffalo the students from that area usually say to the students from NYC things like " I live in a house and we have a front and back yard". They are usually not nice to the NYC people at all. So the NYC people just stick together, they have to

For the most part there is a big bias against NYers all over the country. Some friends I know that now live in other cities across the US say they never let the cat out of the bag that they are from NYC, if they do, its all over.

You are originally from CT and have lived in Italy for a while so you probably don't have the body language or Brooklyn accent so once you get there just don't start talking about NYC or comparing everything to it at least outside of your home to others.

Most people think NYC is some magical place. Like TV or the movies. So most of the time they are just jealous that you are from there. There is nothing that you can do about that. If they only knew. I know you are telling them and giving them the truth but it is hard to change someones preconceived notions.

What is there to understand??? The lady wants to move to Colorado, We are only giving her advice and opinions. They are for her to take or believe, right or wrong. They are given in friendship. She is welcomed and I find her very interesting. I can feel from her comments a similarity to me, in the way she expresses herself and her ethnic background. The verbosity of her comments are very interesting and show a desperate need to be happy--as we all are trying. Certainly, I cannot understand, totally, her experiences, but her writing was a good insight to another persons life; I thank her for sharing.

My comments about SUNY Buffalo are my opinions, from my experiences and are true for me. Your comments are your opinions and are welcomed to be expressed. Both of our comments may in part be true from our point of view. As far as having a front and back yard---Most of the people I met in College at this university and SUNY Binghampton (I also went there) had backyards and lived in "private homes"--they were from the NYC Metro, Long Island ( Suffolk, Nassau), Rockland, etc. had the same attitudes to so called upstaters. Certainly, there were people who lived in coops and apartments in NYC but I do not remember it made any difference in conversation.

I do not feel it is easy for New Yorkers to hide their origins--it becomes evident in many ways--as I have written in many threads. Are people jealous of New Yorkers---maybe, but rarer then when I was young because New York was indeed the "Empire State", the largest state, the state with most culture. It is no longer the case today in all of endeavors but still is a shinning example of some. Biased against New Yorkers??? not everyone, not everywhere--it is just a part of life's experiences. There are ways to overcome peoples objections with honesty, fairness and most of all humor.

However , people from "The City" (I hate that term, that we all should what city that they are talking about) do act in many ways the extreme example of "The Ugly American" when they travel here and abroad---but they do not have the monopoly on that egotistical attitude--it is evident from other places. In Addition, there are many, sophisticated, cosmopolitan, well traveled world citizens of New York that do not evince those bad characteristics.

As far as NYC being magical--Of coarse, any place that we have never been becomes magical in our minds from perceptions and media. For me it was dreams of Texas, California, Hawaii. I remember, my first trip to Los Angeles and seeing the street signs--I knew the names from Television--and now I saw it in print. Thinking about moving to Colorado was an excitement to me. May we all continue to have illusions or maybe delusions of magic; that is one of the allures of this forum--to talk to people from the far away places and to touch "The Magic".

Thanks for your comments

Livecontent
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Old 10-21-2007, 07:49 PM
 
Location: Denver,Co
676 posts, read 2,536,738 times
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I have a brother in NY city and I've been able to get to know some people out there while visiting him. I admire new yorkers. Personally I think that people from the east have a much more outgoing and realistic personality than many of the people from other places. I think that too it has something to do with the enviroment. not sure what though
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