Arizona vs Colorado? (Denver: vacation, job, middle-class)

[strawberryfield]

If you like the natural desert and don't need a lot of shopping (and like that it's 10 degrees cooler) then consider Tucson! Phoenix isn't the only place in AZ and Tucson is great. It most definitely is smaller than Phoenix, not as green (b/c people don't plant lawns all over--they leave more natural desert), and the shopping in Tucson is limited. But if you love the outdoors (yes, even in summer--the early mornings and evenings are great) you might like Tucson.

That said, I love CO....I'd probably pick CO for the change of seasons.

[the3Ds]

Apologies in advance...this is a long post...

Having lived in Phoenix (Scottsdale, then Avondale) for 7 years and now living in Denver, I can give you a little perspective.

Sprawl - Phoenix is the epitome of sprawl. Denver is getting there, but it takes more than 1 hour to drive from one side of the metropolitan area to the other in Phoenix. That is without traffic. It's a huge place and it is growing even bigger. Few of the cities in the Phoenix area have any personality. Scottsdale and Paradise Valley are the only ones that try to stand out from the crowd (but cater to the rich or those who try to pretend they're rich), and you can live there too...but a "starter house" will cost you at least $500,000 and you will have to fight for it with other buyers. If you can't afford it, you'll have to look elsewhere, but in the Phoenix-metro area, "development" means a Staples, A UPS store, a nail salon, a Walgreens or CVS, Best Buy or Circuit City and either a Target or Wal-Mart. Every mile or so you will see this collection of stores and they will try to fancy them up by putting a nice faux rock face on them or putting a fountain out front, but it's the same store in the same cities. Denver has the same sort of sprawl and development centers, but you will still find cities/towns that are trying to hang on to their traditions (Parker and their horses comes to mind). Plus, Downtown Denver puts Phoenix to shame. Phoenix does not have a downtown to speak of.

Homes - Phoenix takes this one. The cost of housing is still more expensive in Phoenix (though it is going through a real estate bust right now), but you get a nicer house for the money. You will never see crammed in housing developments like you see in Denver. I can hear my neighbor's toilet flush and we are only responsible for one side of our house. We are currently house-hunting, and everywhere, from Boulder to Parker, housing developments are the same: Houses absolutely crammed together, lined up on their lots like little soldiers. I do miss that about Phoenix. Most of the houses are single levels and are spread out with a little bit of property around them. I don't need acreage, but it would be nice to own BOTH sides of my house.

Environment - Phoenix is one big brown city. There are the occasional golf courses and overwatered lawns but the entire city exists because of air conditioning. A fire burned down an apartment complex in the summer near our house and the only injuries reported were to a woman who ran out of her apartment without shoes. She received severe burns to her feet because the cement was too hot. You cannot survive there without air conditioning and you will burn your hands on the steering wheel for 7 months of the year. It is nice to see trees and grass and city parks in Denver. There are polluted days in Denver, but overall, a much greener, "Americana" city.

Health - Again, Denver puts Phoenix to shame. Every statistic shows that Colorado is the healthiest state in the country. You can enjoy going outside for the majority of the year (even in the winter, the sun is still shining) in Denver, but in Arizona, you go out only in the early morning or for the 3 months where the temperature is in the 70s. When my daughter was born, she was diagnosed with asthma. We got the inhaler and the steroid spray and used it for almost a year. It disappeared suddenly and the pediatrician said that because the air is so full of particles, children are often treated for asthma until their lungs can accomodate the dusty air on their own. Wow...sounds like a fun place to go jogging or ride your bike, huh?

Cost of living - Again, cheaper in Denver. Your air conditioning will run 24-hours a day in Phoenix. It will stay above 100 degrees even at night. We kept our single-story, 2000 square foot house at 78-80 degrees and our air conditioning bill ran about $250 per month. Our energy bill (which includes electricity and gas) in August (the hottest month of the year in Denver) was $88. The evening cools off and you can open your windows at night to cool your house off naturally. Both states have income taxes. Car registration is about the same too. One huge change was when we changed auto and property insurance. Same cars, same driving records, same coverage...we save almost $100 a month in Denver.

Schools - Arizona is often rated number 49 or 50. Right before we moved, Arizona switched places with Alabama for last place. Arizona also has some of the lowest paid teachers in the country. There are decent schools in Denver and they are scattered around the city. In Phoenix, they are pretty much in Scottsdale or Paradise Valley. There is also a huge dropout rate in Phoenix. I think you can tell a lot about an area by their high schools and again, Denver is better.

Locals - I found that both are friendly. The only thing I thought was weird is that no one ever claims to be from Phoenix. You can meet someone who has lived in Phoenix for 20 years and they will still say they are from Ohio or Minnesota. You can come to your own conclusions about that one, but if you don't claim a city as your own, what gives you an incentive to make it a nice place to live or help keep in clean? Phoenix is absolutely filthy. Every person who came to visit us would comment on how dirty the freeways were and how much garbage was flying around everywhere. Maybe it's because people don't take pride in where they live because they claim another state as their own. Who knows...but you will notice the trash right away.

I'm sure you can tell where I would rather live. Again, to each their own. I found, however, that when I think of a place to raise a family and hang out with friends, Denver beats Phoenix hands down.

[steveco.]

I guess im surprised phoenix is considered that dirty considering most of the city is fairly new. You would think they would invest money to keep areas clean so to make it more appealing, maybe even adopt a highways for trash along the road. I know that they do that here in Denver. I know that here in denver they are really pushing public transportation in the form of a massive light rail expansion and commuter rail as well as rapid transit buses. Are they as progressive about it in phoenix as they are here?

[C_SCHULTZ24]

The above post is definetely right about Phoenix. I currently live in Mesa (which is a little city of Phoenix) and during the summer my electricity bill was a good $300. (Granted there was 3 girls in my condo but we are all hardly ever home) If you don't run ur A/C 24/7 u will come home to an oven instead of a house. Me and my roommates are seriously considering moving to Colorado because my friend talks about how much he enjoys it. If you're looking for somewhere to get away from the snow for the winter, then Arizona is your place. But their summers are so horrible that they are in fact the reason I'm even considering leaving Arizona.

[Chewey1]

I recently had to travel to AZ on a regular basis (Tucson and Phoenix) and here are my thoughts. Also, when I moved to the Denver area, I was also trying to choose between Phoenix and Denver.

1st, you will find that real estate is cheaper here (I am in the mortgage business, so I have 1st hand knowledge of both markets).

2nd, I would rather pay the heating bill in the winter than the horrendous AC bills of AZ in the summer.

3rd, we have a change of seasons but it doesn't really get that cold here. I snowboard and play golf. I can golf year-round and snowboard until the 4th of July.

4th, we have the Rocky Mountains. 'Nuff said.

Both places have a lot to do as it comes to night life, sporting events, concerts, outdoor activities. It is just easier to do them here. Denver has a light rail system that is being expanded so it makes it easier to get around town. From a real estate perspective, we are at a great place for a buyer. Buyers are getting great deals and interest rates are falling. The National Association of Realtors put out a report recently stating that Denver is primed to be the hottest market in all of the western states as well as one of the top nationally.

Hope that helps.

[bluesalad]

I've read now (a few times) people say that real estate is cheaper in Denver than in Phoenix. I am not sure if I agree. We are moving to Denver from AZ, and have been looking at houses on line. What I've found is that for areas such as Lonetree, or Cherry Creek School Disctrict, it's hard to get a newer house (less than 10 yr old for less than $150/sq ft). But throughout Phoenix and the nicer suberbs, you can get deals even as low as $120/sq ft. So I am wondering when you say 'cheaper', that cities are you comparing Denver and Phoniex to? thanks for your help.

[steveco.]

Lone tree is a fairly pricey area it has a lot of open space and it is a very new suburb of denver. You aren't going to find much cheap housing in that area. Some of the more affordable areas are going to be some of the newer areas of aurora. I know it has had a bad rap before but I think the newer areas of aurora are just as nice as some areas of highlands ranch, lots of new development on the outskirts near E 470. Also try the northern burbs of westminster and thornton similar thing going on up there

[vegaspilgrim]

Originally Posted by bluesalad

I've read now (a few times) people say that real estate is cheaper in Denver than in Phoenix. I am not sure if I agree. We are moving to Denver from AZ, and have been looking at houses on line. What I've found is that for areas such as Lonetree, or Cherry Creek School Disctrict, it's hard to get a newer house (less than 10 yr old for less than $150/sq ft). But throughout Phoenix and the nicer suberbs, you can get deals even as low as $120/sq ft. So I am wondering when you say 'cheaper', that cities are you comparing Denver and Phoniex to? thanks for your help.

The poster who made that comment was a realtor trolling around for potential clients-- not offering helpful information. As a whole, I don't think the real estate in Denver is priced much different at all from Phoenix. Both are overpriced. The nicer parts of each town will cost you a lot more than the dumpier parts. One thing I'll say though-- I think you get more house for your money in Denver than in Phoenix, Vegas, or any of the other sunbelt cities. Most houses in Phoenix, even nice ones, are one story ranch style homes with no basement and tiny backyards (even smaller than your typical Denver backyard). Two story homes are relatively rare there. Phoenix is a paper flat city, so you won't find walk-out basements or backyard decks there either. Wood doesn't last long in AZ-- they have termites there. Neighborhoods have block walls between each house rather than wood fences. All the houses built in the last 20 years there look identical, with beige stucco and pink tile roof design. Older homes are slump block with asphalt roofs. In Phoenix most people have a "rock garden" in your front yard, not a lawn (actually, that might not be such a bad idea for Denver-- it would help save water). About half of all homes there have pools in their backyards.

[bluesalad]

Wow, it doesn't seem like people like Realtors much. That's okay. That's why I got my license just so I don't get screwed by the unethical ones. (I don't practice nor have intention of scouting potential clients, heck I gave up the license b/c I like the knowledge part more than the transaction part). I've been burned by a few realtors that did not disclose dual agency until the deal was almost done... after that, I knew I had to bump up my knowledge so I wont' get taken advantage of. And Honestly, I probably need a good experienced realtor in CO. No offence to the good realtors out there, I am sure there are a few bad apples in any industry.

So back to the question I had, it sounds like LoneTree is like the Scottsdale or Ocotillo of AZ. We visited CO a few months ago, and just fell in love with the open space and the fact that Douglas School District is pretty good. I guess centennial is another city to consider, maybe it's cheaper than Lonetree.

Many of the websites I've come across to search for CO homes require some sort of log in where I have to provide personal information to view details. Does anyone know of some good websites where potential buyer can view property detail without giving out all the info? thanks.

[Mike from back east]

BlueSalad: I like realtor.com as there is no sign-in requirement. You may set up an I-D if you want to, as that allows you to save listings to a favorites folder. Their search feature seems very robust. I used that site a lot and never had any spam show up after I registered, nor did any realtors contact me, unless I first sent an inquiry, in which case I always got a good professional reply.

We love our realtors here on city-data, but we don't let them advertise or troll for clients. I banned a chap yesterday for repeatedly trolling. For Realtors, there is a whole page of advice in the FAQ Forum, and some in the TOS.