The People (Denver, Boulder: house, art, buy)

[hello-world]

Originally Posted by Fallingwaters

I know the male to female ratio and dating life sound more topical, but I have some general questions.

I've heard that Denver seems family-oriented and caters more to the married couples with kids demographic. This suits me well as I fall into that demographic. To single people (and I remember those days well and actually had similar gripes about DC that I'm hearing about Denver) this might seem boring, but is this pretty much true?

i think that many of the suburbs are more like this around denver metro. i think it can also be a younger crowd within denver (and even in the suburbs) that is geared more towards snowboarding/skiing/volleyball leagues/beer. many people come from the midwest, here, (if not from mexico, e.g.), and to a growing extent, from southern CA, and to a lesser extent from places like TX, e.g., so that can influence what people can tend to be like.

Denver's a good place for families (maybe more than singles)?

denver's probably fine for some singles. maybe more so for some female singles, or for singles that tend to fit more into what i'd just described.

i think denver can be a good family place, too.

For those with families, when you go out with your younger kids, do people seem pretty understanding or act like it's a big affront to them that someone would go to a restaurant with their kids (obviously, it would depend on the restaurant and not taking your kids in a movie theatre for movies that don't cater to them is kind of a no-brainer).

in my experience, denver is pretty casual, and so people don't seem to fuss so much about these kinds of things. i imagine in a fancy resort, for example, people might fuss over someone having their kids along. not so much in denver, that i've seen.

I ask because, where I live now, families with kids seem to be a minority and you kind of feel unwelcome just going out -- even to places that supposedly cater to families like parks and museums.

At work and around the neighborhood, do people generally socialize?

i read and hear people saying that it is not quite so neighborly in some parts of the denver metro, though i don't experience or hear about people really being "rude"...maybe just more at arm's length sometimes. things like "people keep to themselves" etc.. to me, it just seems more clique-ish than i've found elsewhere, but once you find your clique, it's quite sociable.

Probably the only thing I really have in common with a lot of people sports-wise is hockey. I really dig the sport and could see myself becoming an Avs fan living in Denver (especially after rooting for the mediocre Capitals for so many years). Otherwise, do people generally discuss politics and other stuff as casual conversation?

i find that people tend to stick to pretty "safe" topics. tend. sports is a favorite topic of people here. spectator sports. life sports. participant sports. sports gear. sports news. ...

Might sound like a dumb question but, in the Pacific NW, people aren't really conversant. Are people generally amiable in Denver or do you get a lot of silence, glares, and dirty looks about town?

maybe more silence with a smile or indifference from strangers. that's what i've found, sometimes, anyhow. some people write things here like "you can't really just talk to a stranger in line at the grocery store around here as much as you can in say, upstate new york". i agree with that. but it's not like people here seem combative or give dirty looks, for example (that i've seen).

Do you guys find yourselves at least friendly with your coworkers, neighbors, etc. Do people just B.S for something to do while waiting in line or whatever or do they kind of keep to themselves?

see above for my own take on this.

Mainly, I'd hate to move from what I consider one boring, introverted, socially devoid area to another place where, especially transplants, are locked out until they've lived there ten years or more. I don't fully get this impression of Denver, but reading this thread makes me wonder a little.

to me, it does seem like it can take some time to break in socially around here if you are not already "in" somehow. and it is maybe a bit more "keep to thyself" at least in terms of the depth of engagement sometimes, if not in terms of at least being able to find people to go skiing with etc.. perhaps some work environments here, or coming here with a spouse, or some daycares and kids or church groups, etc. can help. there are those that appear to try all this to no avail.

overall, it's a decent place in my opinion. overall, i think people are alright here. it's the mid-/mountain-west, but a bigger city in the mid-/mountain west, so a bit more variety to chose from than some other mid-/mountain-western places, perhaps. and it's going through a LOT of change QUICKLY (it's growing, and becoming a bigger blip on the global radar, with more immigrants moving in - mostly from the midwest and CA, or from south of the border - all the time). it's not paris. it's not new york city. it's not tinyburgh alabama.

there is probably at least a LITTLE it of most anything you want if you seek it out, here, so much of the above is just "trends" through my eyes.

[Fallingwaters]

Mike and Hello-world: thanks for the feedback. I guess the best way to know for sure is to either visit (again) or rent for a while to get an idea of the area before comitting. The sort of "polite but distant" culture is one of the things I'm not too thrilled with about Seattle, despite its also being a larger metro area (I know, you'd think: 2-point-something million people and you'd get all kinds -- just a weird pall settles over a lot of people in Seattle, natives and transplants alike. Could be the weather, could just be assimilation). Of course, talking about sports (Denver) is better than talking about nothing (Seattle).

Err, pardon the odd sounding question, but would you characterize in any way a large enough portion of the population to notice as "passive aggressive" (slow, stubborn, duplicitous), flakey (saying they'll do something then not following through), or over the top politically correct? I know generalizations are often frowned upon, but it'd be good to know something like that. Logically, you can pick out individuals of all sorts in any city, but the things I've described are prominent enough in Seattle culture that they get written about in the papers. I haven't read anything like that about Denver, but, then again, I didn't read stuff like that about Seattle until after I'd moved here and experienced it firsthand.

You mentioned libertarian leanings. Without getting too heavy into politics, culturally, is it individualistic? I'm trying to avoid moving to another conformist environment.

I honestly don't care that much about things like yuppy careerism, people noticing what you drive, or keeping up with the Joneses -- while I'm not like that myself, I'm doing well enough economically that those mentalities don't bother me.

[hello-world]

Originally Posted by Fallingwaters

Mike and Hello-world: thanks for the feedback. I guess the best way to know for sure is to either visit (again) or rent for a while to get an idea of the area before comitting. The sort of "polite but distant" culture is one of the things I'm not too thrilled with about Seattle, despite its also being a larger metro area (I know, you'd think: 2-point-something million people and you'd get all kinds -- just a weird pall settles over a lot of people in Seattle, natives and transplants alike. Could be the weather, could just be assimilation). Of course, talking about sports (Denver) is better than talking about nothing (Seattle).

i'm not sure visits are going to get you a very prfound sense of some of these more underlying subtleties you're getting at. i guess reading around through the forum here and maybe others out there might let you "read between the lines" for trends like these. i imagine you can see some things you consider "seattle-like" in reading through seattle threads (even in the tone and mannerisms of whomever is posting), and i imagine you might see similar things in reading through denver posts, with some exceptions here and there, but trend-wise still. i will say that i think you are onto some things worth being onto.

Err, pardon the odd sounding question, but would you characterize in any way a large enough portion of the population to notice as "passive aggressive" (slow, stubborn, duplicitous), flakey (saying they'll do something then not following through), or over the top politically correct? I know generalizations are often frowned upon, but it'd be good to know something like that. Logically, you can pick out individuals of all sorts in any city, but the things I've described are prominent enough in Seattle culture that they get written about in the papers. I haven't read anything like that about Denver, but, then again, I didn't read stuff like that about Seattle until after I'd moved here and experienced it firsthand.

again, you might be getting at some qualities worth ferreting out by reading through the forum and getting a feel for the people writing what they write, and deciding for yourself whether some of your characterizations might fit denver, as well. again, a visit might not reveal these things, while a lot of commentary (that can be more honest on these sorts of venues, whether or not totally "true"...on individual posting or poster bases) might help you see the trends in people's perceptions. i will guess you will get different perceptions from those that have been here for a short time relative to those that have been here for a while. you might also find different trends in women versus men, and in people with politics and socioeconomics like yours versus not like yours... if you visit, maybe stop by a few venues - coffee shops, bars, etc. - and ask around to see what you can sense from the conversations. but still, that might just scratch the surface or mislead a little... of course, a forum like this might tend to appeal more to some demographics, so, that can mislead a little, too, of course.

You mentioned libertarian leanings. Without getting too heavy into politics, culturally, is it individualistic? I'm trying to avoid moving to another conformist environment.

it can seem almost like a libertarian-leaning form of either republican or democrat, here, perhaps while not necessarily calling itself "libertarian". that is my humble opinion. "democrat" while actually holding libertarian values without even knowing it, sometimes. or republican that might also agree with legalizing marijuana kinds of things. you might pick up on this, or call it something else for yourself, in reading through a lot of the colorado threads, for example. i look at things like the legislation that gets proposed here, the public education performance, the taxation (TABOR, for example), the per capita car ownership, the growth, etc. and how these things seem to interact as somewhat telling signals of the overall culture of the place (while of course you can find exceptions to some of it). there are threads on this forum about each of these.

I honestly don't care that much about things like yuppy careerism, people noticing what you drive, or keeping up with the Joneses -- while I'm not like that myself, I'm doing well enough economically that those mentalities don't bother me.

it sometimes seems to me that some of what can go into "keeping up with the joneses" can also go into some of the "passive aggressive" "internal individuality while 'fitting in'" or "friendly from a distance" you seem to be trying to get at; you can get a feel for that, i'd think, via the few things you've suggested and seem to be doing. i guess you can judge the "flakey" and "slow" (relative to whatever you think those are) that way to an extent, too. i will personally let you decide whether some of those labels apply or not to any extent that might matter to you, regarding denver.

i would agree with Mike FBE that people can have a nice time here. i, for one, like it a lot, have been here for many years, and plan on staying. in all honesty, though,i have found a bit of what you seem to be alluding to here (the "seattle freeze" denver-style, so i'm guessing not to the degree); i felt that for years, but not as much any more. in the end, for many people, it can seem a very pleasant and friendly place, maybe especially "circumstance dependent" (depending on your circumstance).

[Katiana]

I'll take a stab at this one.

Originally Posted by Fallingwaters

I know the male to female ratio and dating life sound more topical, but I have some general questions.

I've heard that Denver seems family-oriented and caters more to the married couples with kids demographic. This suits me well as I fall into that demographic. To single people (and I remember those days well and actually had similar gripes about DC that I'm hearing about Denver) this might seem boring, but is this pretty much true? Denver's a good place for families (maybe more than singles)?

Metro Denver is a good place for families. It is also a good place for singles, especially in the city proper.

For those with families, when you go out with your younger kids, do people seem pretty understanding or act like it's a big affront to them that someone would go to a restaurant with their kids (obviously, it would depend on the restaurant and not taking your kids in a movie theatre for movies that don't cater to them is kind of a no-brainer). I ask because, where I live now, families with kids seem to be a minority and you kind of feel unwelcome just going out -- even to places that supposedly cater to families like parks and museums.

Yes, people seem pretty understanding, in my experience raising two kids here.

At work and around the neighborhood, do people generally socialize?

My neighborhood in Louisville is social. We have a block party every summer, and a neighborhood e-mail list where people make announcements, sell cars, etc. There are some women's groups that meet sporadically, and frequently someone has an open house for the whole neighborhood.

Probably the only thing I really have in common with a lot of people sports-wise is hockey. I really dig the sport and could see myself becoming an Avs fan living in Denver (especially after rooting for the mediocre Capitals for so many years). Otherwise, do people generally discuss politics and other stuff as casual conversation?

Depends on what you mean as casual conversation. In line at the grocery store, no, people don't talk about politics. In a social setting, yes, it comes up sometimes.

Might sound like a dumb question but, in the Pacific NW, people aren't really conversant. Are people generally amiable in Denver or do you get a lot of silence, glares, and dirty looks about town?

No, no glares, etc. People kind of keep to themselves like in line at the post office or whatever, but will usually talk to you if you initiate something.

Do you guys find yourselves at least friendly with your coworkers, neighbors, etc.

Yes. Some co-workers see each other socially, some don't.

Do people just B.S for something to do while waiting in line or whatever or do they kind of keep to themselves?

See above.

Mainly, I'd hate to move from what I consider one boring, introverted, socially devoid area to another place where, especially transplants, are locked out until they've lived there ten years or more. I don't fully get this impression of Denver, but reading this thread makes me wonder a little.

If you have kids, and volunteer for their activities, you will be accepted. If you join a club and volunteer, ditto.

[Shuffler]

Just keep it simple: smile, acknowledge others, and don't be an a-hole. People will reciprocate, or they won't. Don't take it personally if the latter...that's just the way it is. People are overly self-involved these days and sometimes they don't even realize it. In this age of so many communication crutches...email, cell phones, text messaging...we're losing our ability to execute the most basic forms of 'natural' communication. It's annoying.

[Averie-Jay]

I agree with Shuffler. It's really not a complicated process. A smile & "howdy-do" gets you farther than you'd expect!

[Tom63376]

I don't see that the Male/Female ratios are that bad
compared to other cities known for hot looking women..


I did some averages:

---------- 20-24M 20-24F %Female
San Diego 128,208 102,745 44.5%
San Jose 59,819 52,871 46.9%
Phoenix 124,935 110,566 46.9%
Denver 71,380 66,338 48.2%
Orange County 98,152 91,844 48.3%
Dallas 131,572 123,974 48.5%
Los Angeles 357,958 343,879 49.0%

---------- 25-29M 25-29F %Female
San Jose 77,086 67,820 46.8%
San Diego 116,623 104,650 47.3%
Phoenix 136,153 122,398 47.3%
Orange County 114,472 108,813 48.7%
Los Angeles 395,422 383,609 49.2%
Denver 90,482 84,295 48.2%
Dallas 156,069 150,004 49.0%


Denver seems to have the 2nd best ratio in that all important
25-29 age range where most people try to marry..

For 20-29, San Jose, San Diego, and Phoenix all score
worse for % of females... Only Dallas seems to have
a better Female %..

What am I not seeing here??? I am moving to Denver in 2 weeks
and I hope the dating scene is not as dismal as people proclaim in
this thread....

[celes_18]

I think it matters what your attracted to and what you consider must haves appearance wise.. I see all types here in Denver. I've never had any trouble with the dating scene or had any friends that had trouble with it.

[uncalifornian girl]

Hi, I am seriously considering a move to Denver by the end of the summer. Also wondering about the dating scene. I've heard promising things, especially for a woman. I'm hoping it's true, that there are tons of single guys. I'm escaping from L.A., where dating is really tough, at least for women. I'm attractive but older, 35...so hopefully there are still lots of single guys in their late 30's? My other question is about how I would fit in to the Colorado culture...I'm very down to earth, interested in the outdoors, but at the same time, I'm very feminine and like to dress up when it's appropriate. The other city I spent a number of years in was Seattle, and I always felt out of place, wearing dresses was just not done, even at a party everyone would wear flannel and baggy pants. It was the 90's and grunge was huge, so maybe that was the problem. I'm wondering how Denver compares to Seattle? A little more sophisticated?

[Katiana]

I'm a long way from the dating scene, but I can tell you, style of dress is very casual. Not flannels and baggy pants, but casual. Mostly jeans and some type of shirt.