Is Denver boring? (Boulder, Glendale: apartment complex, crime, buying)

[FrozenShores]

I think I may have another way to look at this.

First off I agree, Denver is not a big city. The four big cities in America are Chicago, New York, LA, and the San Francisco Bay Area. Medium sized cities are Houston, Dallas, Boston, Philly, DC and Miami/Ft. Lauderdale. Denver, as a whole, still doesn't match up to the medium sized cities.

However, I would have to say that Denver's downtown walk-ability rivals, if it is not already better than Houston, Dallas, and Miami. Between Capitol Hill, Uptown, Golden Triangle, The CBD, Lodo and Lower Highlands, Central Denver has so many miles of walkable urban environments that I can't walk them all in a week. So in this respect, Denver at least can compare to medium sized cities. And the street life in these areas is definitely comparable to Miami(only without the chicks in bikinis.)

With respect to the proximity to nature, I don't see how Denver is so far away that you can only go occasionally. For instance, the 700 acre Apex Mountain park with trails that change altitude by nearly 2000' throughout their 8 miles of trails is only a 15 minute drive from downtown Denver. And if you're looking for high country, a 45 minute drive will take you to Echo Lake park which is more than 10,000 feet up on the continental divide. A nine mile drive from there will take you to the top of Mt. Evans which is Denver's closest 14'er.

So don't worry, just do a little research and you'll find Denver has much more to offer than you think.

[downtownnola]

FunkyMonk, what part of town are you living in right now? I have a feeling that may have a major bearing on your experience thus far. What part of town are you thinking of moving to?

[POhdNcrzy]

Downtownnola said:

"I agree that Denver isn't a midwestern city. Not at all. Cities like Kansas City, St. Louis and Omaha are midwestern cities and they have a completely different feel than the Denver metro area. Denver is culturally much more of a western city."

YES, one think about the Denver-Boulder area in particular and also the ritzier mountain resort towns of CO, is the "California-LA-West Coast" cultural connection. Having lived in Los Angeles and Boulder (15 years), I really understand this now. To me, this is an appealing aspect of Colorado, the cutting-edge hipness that filters through.

ALSO, you mentioned San Francisco. Yes, duh, I forgot the Bay Area on my list of

Super-Hip-Urban-Expensive areas (SHUE):

NYC
LA
SanFran-Bay Area
Miami
Seattle
(Chicago)

Chicago barely makes the SHUE list IMHO, Did I miss any others places? I don't think so....

For me it's all boiling down to TWO main choices in life:

A) Do I move back to Boulder-Denver area?

Cons: I will have to "create" my artistic, wild, hip, conscious world from the ground up myself, but there are plenty of like minded people in Boulder-Denver who will come "along for the ride". Also, much of the "hip" infrastructure is already in place.

Pros: Cost of living is not yet TOTALLY OUTRAGEOUS. Best lifestyle in the world, outdoor athletic living in sunny, mountainous paradise without all the horrible, daunting downsides of the SHUE (super-hip-urban-expensive) areas.

B) I move to one of the SHUE (super-hip-urban-expensive) areas and SOMEHOW try to "make it" although accomplishing that is pretty much extremely difficult to do in the SHUE areas nowadays.

Cons: All the daunting challenges and downsides of life in the SHUE areas. If you don't make $100k per year your life SUCKS terribly in the SHUE areas (whether you're willing to admit it or not).

Pros: Well, if you figure out how to make minimum $100,000+/year living in the SHUE areas, THE OPPORTUNITIES AND LIFESTYLE ARE AMAZINGLY GOOD.

[Mr. Answers]

I think Funky Monk hit the nail on the head.

[vegaspilgrim]

Originally Posted by POhdNcrzy

YES, one think about the Denver-Boulder area in particular and also the ritzier mountain resort towns of CO, is the "California-LA-West Coast" cultural connection. Having lived in Los Angeles and Boulder (15 years), I really understand this now. To me, this is an appealing aspect of Colorado, the cutting-edge hipness that filters through.

I'm not so sure about that. Now that I'm actually live in LA (temporarily, while I'm here for a one year master's program at USC) and have done a lot of exploration all over LA, OC, and SD and have a basis of comparison, I'd have to disagree. The parts of Denver that imagine themselves to be "urban" and "hip" (SHUE, to use your ingenious acronym) are NOT modelled on a west coast style. Unless if by "west coast" you mean the Pacific Northwest, Seattle or Portland. The LoDo's, Highland's, Capitol Hill's, and Baker's (let the urban hipster's term "SoBo" die a rapid death!), of Denver are modeled after midwestern and east coast urban centers-- in terms of architectural design, the types of restaurants/eateries you see, the style of signage and colors and names of businesses and places. The most similar "west coast" city that "urban" Denver/Boulder resembles (or subconsciously imitates) is Seattle. Of course there are individual exceptions, but by and large the urban community of Denver looks eastward (and indirectly northwestward) for its model, not southwestward (aka SoCal).

Where Denver does have some California/west coast influence is in some of the latest generation of master planned suburbs-- Highlands Ranch being the most noteworthy/infamous (depending on your point of view). HR was actually developed by the Mission Viejo company, who built much of southern Orange County in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. It's no coincidence that a number of residents in Highlands Ranch, Lone Tree, and Douglas County in general are from Orange County, CA. However even there the similarities are in terms of design and planning-- architecturally there is no mass produced subdivision anywhere in Denver that builds California style pink tile roof and stucco homes.

Want to see a really good example of what pure SoCal trendy "west coast"-iness is all about? As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words. Take a look at this photo tour I put together a few weeks ago of Costa Mesa (a kind of urban suburb) and Newport Beach:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/membe...ms-oc-2-1.html
http://www.city-data.com/forum/membe...ms-oc-2-2.html

Sure, that's in OC, not LA, but it encapsulates what "west coast" is about more than any one single place I can think of in LA. Look especially at the middle portion of the photo tour when I go through "downtown" Costa Mesa. And I just can't think of ANYWHERE in Denver or Boulder that looks and feels like that.

[vegaspilgrim]

One other thing-- for better or worse, Boulder is Boulder. I don't think Boulder's "trendiness" is imported from the "west coast" or California or the Pacific Northwest or any one region particularly-- a lot of it is homegrown. Boulder is not really my kind of place, but it is a UNIQUE place.

[Awesomo.2000]

I lived in Denver for about 3 years. I first moved into Glendale. I signed my lease on-line, and only visited downtown before moving there and signing the lease. I went online and found a apartment complex located on the Cherry Creek bike trail. It boasted about having walking trails, shopping nearby, etc. I thought it was going to be similar to like living next to Fairmont Park in Philly, or next to Schinley Park in Pittsburgh. (the two cities I was familiar with). It showed online that it was two miles from Downtown, so I figured it would be a tight, urban, city neighborhood probably filled with walkable business districts, and old tree lined streets, etc.

However, I was completely wrong, and disappointed when I moved there. I hated it. It was located in Glendale. The apartment complex was this homogenous suburban looking crap. The promised retail was target, and every chain stripmall down Colorado Blvd.

My apartment used the name Cherry Creek even though it was Glendale. I could see that Cherry Creek was something they were trying to emulate from an east coast type city; A neighborhood with three streets that make up a walkable buisness district. Many neighborhoods here have their own downtown type areas like Cherry Creek. It was just too yuppie and new looking for me. It didn't have any soul IMO.

My last two years there, I moved down into Capitol Hill. Then I started to like Denver. It was much better, and more neighborly. However, Capitol Hill reminded me of the first ring of suburbs outside of east coast cities. I lived on the Main Line just outside of the border of Philly, and about 10 miles from Downtown. That town outside fo Philly was more urban than the Capitol Hill in denver. But Capitol Hill was urban enough for me.

If I stayed out there I would have no idea where I would live. I hate urban sprawl, however, I have no problem with old towns outside of cities that are still considered suburbs, but are actual towns with their own buisness districts, walkable streets, their own character, etc. Here in Pittsburgh there are many old towns outside the city that are considered suburbs, but are actual real towns. I felt Denver didn't have many at all. It seemed like once you left Denver 99% of everything was a suburb built from urban sprawl.

[denverian]

Originally Posted by vegaspilgrim

I'm not so sure about that. Now that I'm actually live in LA (temporarily, while I'm here for a one year master's program at USC) and have done a lot of exploration all over LA, OC, and SD and have a basis of comparison, I'd have to disagree. The parts of Denver that imagine themselves to be "urban" and "hip" (SHUE, to use your ingenious acronym) are NOT modelled on a west coast style. Unless if by "west coast" you mean the Pacific Northwest, Seattle or Portland. The LoDo's, Highland's, Capitol Hill's, and Baker's (let the urban hipster's term "SoBo" die a rapid death!), of Denver are modeled after midwestern and east coast urban centers-- in terms of architectural design, the types of restaurants/eateries you see, the style of signage and colors and names of businesses and places. The most similar "west coast" city that "urban" Denver/Boulder resembles (or subconsciously imitates) is Seattle. Of course there are individual exceptions, but by and large the urban community of Denver looks eastward (and indirectly northwestward) for its model, not southwestward (aka SoCal).

Where Denver does have some California/west coast influence is in some of the latest generation of master planned suburbs-- Highlands Ranch being the most noteworthy/infamous (depending on your point of view). HR was actually developed by the Mission Viejo company, who built much of southern Orange County in the 70s, 80s, and 90s. It's no coincidence that a number of residents in Highlands Ranch, Lone Tree, and Douglas County in general are from Orange County, CA. However even there the similarities are in terms of design and planning-- architecturally there is no mass produced subdivision anywhere in Denver that builds California style pink tile roof and stucco homes.

Want to see a really good example of what pure SoCal trendy "west coast"-iness is all about? As they say, a picture is worth a thousand words. Take a look at this photo tour I put together a few weeks ago of Costa Mesa (a kind of urban suburb) and Newport Beach:

http://www.city-data.com/forum/membe...ms-oc-2-1.html
http://www.city-data.com/forum/membe...ms-oc-2-2.html

Sure, that's in OC, not LA, but it encapsulates what "west coast" is about more than any one single place I can think of in LA. Look especially at the middle portion of the photo tour when I go through "downtown" Costa Mesa. And I just can't think of ANYWHERE in Denver or Boulder that looks and feels like that.

Ahh - The Anti Mall. I've been there many times - we moved to Denver from OC 3 years ago. The only parts of OC I really like are Costa Mesa, because it has an urban vibe to it and it's fairly liberal, and then Laguna Beach for its beauty and funkiness. The rest of it's a pit, IMO.

[DenverLawGal]

Don't leave me out cuz I'm right there with you. And I'm on my way to Miami.

Originally Posted by POhdNcrzy

Just wanna say briefly, Wankel7, I think you are really on target with your post.

Also, FunkyMonk, I lived in Boulder for 15+ years and I can really relate to your observations about Denver.

I think for people like you and me, we're looking at NYC, LA, maybe Miami, maybe Seattle, maybe Chicago. That's about it. Problem with those places is you need major buck$$$$$$ to take advantage of what they offer and to even just survive there.

If it's any consolation, I can really relate.

[inquiz49]

I think it is. The Jeffco suburbs on the other hand are alot more fun to be in.