Diversity in Denver (Aurora, Boulder, Louisville: taxes, live, cost)

[wanttomoveeast]

Thank you for saying this Katiana. I often feel that many whites think racism is gone because 1) they are white, it's not like racists harrass them! and 2) they don't see obnoxious stuff like lynchings in their front yard. But trust me, it's there, and almost more hideous in a way (ok, no way is it worse than lynchings) but hideous in that it is deeply rooted and used in non-obvious ways.

Originally Posted by Katiana

I actually think you will like it. There is less overt hostility towards people of color here, and a large hispanic community. I am sure there is racism I have not seen, b/c I am white. But I agree with the difference between here and Pittsburgh (where I am from). It's a breath of fresh air compared to that environmnet. Good luck with your move!

[wanttomoveeast]

Your post was awesome. It made me think of my own childhood. I grew up in small, practically all-white town in Colorado. I could never figure out what to do with my hair. My mom is white and dad long gone, I don't even remember him. She had no idea what to do with my hair, and neither did the entirely all-white high school classmates I knew. Same goes with makeup. And don't get me started on nightmare stories of going to the "salons".

On the black experience, I was definitely screwed there. I received zero, and as such, have a very hard time relating to blacks now that I am an adult. And sometimes I find myself trying very hard to make black friends just so I can get some "experience". I wish my mom had moved to a more diverse area, one where I would be around many blacks, not just 1.

As I've said before, Denver has many good attributes, race and ethnicity is not one of them. I do think that your kids will have it better than I did though.

Originally Posted by enigmakairos

A: there are few people to share/get feedback on/exchange cultural experiences that they may have... even for the really basic issues. (For instance, ladies: how often do you talk to a friend or co-worker about your hair routine or what you did to get that nice healthy salon glow? Well, it's kind of hard for a teenage black girl to get hair tips for natural hair when her routine is probably completely different and there's maybe one other kid in school to compare with.) These are very base level sociological experiences that actually have a profound impact on how children relate themselves to their environment and form a positive self image.

B: it is harder to show the vast diversity of the Black American experience to a Black or even mixed-race child when there aren't that many around, and those that are typically are of similar socioeconomic background. I hope that makes sense to some.

So that all being said, we've chosen to move to Denver despite its shortcomings when it comes to diversity. After all, we've gotta start somewhere. I've already started talking my Vietnamese best friend into coming here after law school. Probably won't work, but I'm trying!

[RATT]

Pardon me for being confuse but in the city-data Denver page i notice in the Races in Denver numbers to be:

*White Non-Hispanic (51.9%)
*Hispanic (31.7%)
*Black (11.1%)
*Two or more races (3.7%)
*American Indian (2.2%)
*Vietnamese (0.8%)
Yet people are complaining about not enough diversity in Denver???
from what i was able to understand the "problem"for some is with the suburbs but even there most of them would hardly qualify as white supremacist compounds,
the majority of the people living in these areas are white that's true but why is that a bad thing?In the areas that i am hoping to live witch are: *south of bowles in between wadsworth and S.platte or the columbine-columbine valley-and littleton areas,i have seen the numbers to be anywhere between 15 to 24% non-whites.
I wonder what the diversity people are after?
If the company of whites is so uncomfortable for some(WITCH IS YOUR RIGHT),why not go where you will find the DIVERSITY you seek elsewhere!
Rather than constantly berate whites for being the majority in any given area with all sort of recriminations witch have more to do with your mind set,attitude and/or mentality rather than anything else IMO.

[wanttomoveeast]

RATT: I don't think we were trying to berate whites, the OP asked about diversity in Denver and it became a sort of debate. Everyone has their own opinion. The numbers you posted do seem correct, it's just that when you compare that to the overall population maybe it doesn't seem like so much. In any case, I certainly am not trying to berate whites, just give an honest opinion to the OP.

[enigmakairos]

Please re-read through this thread. I think you missed some things.

I think for most of not all of those who have posted here regarding the desire for a diverse environment, no one has expressed *anything* along the lines of being bothered by the company of Whites. Besides, Black folks are only around 13% of the population of the US, so if a Black person doesn't already live around a majority of whites then they've never been outside of a very very small (probably urban) area.

It's that most people like to be able to experience more than just one type or flavor of subculture, no matter what your background or where you are. I want to be able to get good Pho, a great Paella, and a half-decent serving of Kim Chi when the mood strikes me. That usually doesn't happen in A city with *only* White folks.

Furthermore, if you happen to be some type of cultural minority, it's very useful for many practical purposes to have someone you can relate to about experiences that other people may never be able to have.

And I reiterate, having a large percentage of another race of people does not make an area diverse. Depending on the culture/race, they can be a very insular group. In which case there can be 100,000 of em - I still won't run into one in my neighborhood, because they're probably concentrated into one or two areas.

I'm pretty certain I haven't come across any posts in this thread that suggested someone doesn't care to live around Whites or suggests that living in an all-White area is somehow a despicable or detestable thing.
It's just that variety is the spice of life.

Originally Posted by RATT

Pardon me for being confuse but in the city-data Denver page i notice in the Races in Denver numbers to be:

*White Non-Hispanic (51.9%)
*Hispanic (31.7%)
*Black (11.1%)
*Two or more races (3.7%)
*American Indian (2.2%)
*Vietnamese (0.8%)
Yet people are complaining about not enough diversity in Denver???

I wonder what the diversity people are after?
If the company of whites is so uncomfortable for some(WITCH IS YOUR RIGHT),why not go where you will find the DIVERSITY you seek elsewhere!
Rather than constantly berate whites for being the majority in any given area with all sort of recriminations witch have more to do with your mind set,attitude and/or mentality rather than anything else IMO.

[Katiana]

Originally Posted by Katiana

In this very thread:

The city itself is majority-minority.
Minorities a majority in Denver - The Denver Post

Originally Posted by Ben Around

I agree. The Pittsburgh MSA (overall area, as you call it) is 89% White and only 8% black. Pittsburgh is actually whiter than the "usual suspects": Madison (87%), Minneapolis (83%), Sarasota (84%), Portland (80%), Salt Lake (70%), Colorado Springs (76%), Seattle (74%), Wichita (78%), Worcester (85%), Providence (84%).

BTW, I liked your maps!

Originally Posted by Katiana

Denver is now officially "majority-minority", with 50.1% minority. This is not reflected in City-Data's stats, which say 50.9% white. That's still not hugely white. Minneapolis is 62.5% white, according to City-Data.

Originally Posted by Katiana

I wouldn't call 49.9% white, as in the case of Denver, "lily white", unless there is some new breed of lily out there. Even the old stat, 50.9% white, is hardly "lily white".

Originally Posted by Katiana

That is not the OP's question. However, here is the answer:


Ethnicity
A diverse population in Metro Denver fosters a culture of creativity, openness, and energy, all essential ingredients for the region's Mountain West lifestyle.

The ethnic/minority population comprises 32.8 percent of Metro Denver’s population, with continued growth forecasted during the next decade. According to the U.S. Census Bureau's 2006 American Community Survey, Colorado ranks ninth in the nation for total population with two or more races.

Metro Denver’s ethnic/minority population grew by 11.6 percent between 2000 and 2006. The Hispanic population is Metro Denver’s largest minority group comprising 21.9 percent of the population in 2006.

Document Downloads
Ethnicity Stats
Multiracial Percentages
[e] info@metrodenver.org [f] 303.534.3200[p] 303.620.8092© 2008 Metro Denver EDC1445 Market Street Denver, CO 80202

Compare that to some other cities such as Pittsburgh, whose suburbs are 90+% white.

Here are some stats that give a picture of the Denver 'burbs.

[enigmakairos]

Here's the problem with using stats to determine 'diversity' (And perhaps the problem with trying to help someone gauge 'diverseness' overall):

I've seen people post statistics on demographics from at least 20 sources. Many of which give contrasting or different amounts to some extent. I've also seen sources that aren't even meant to be used in any technical way, such as the American Community Survey - it's a questionnaire sent to a small percentage of the population on a rotating basis used only to determine who'll come out on the winning side of budgetary handouts. By no means is it all-encompassing. The only real stats come directly from the decannual census, and it's been 8 years since the last one, folks. A lot changes in 8 years. Regardless, because of issues I've already mentioned (is a given group insular? Transient?) It seems more useful for an individual to get a sense of diversity based on feel. Subjective, I know. That's the point - the whole CONCEPT is SUBJECTIVE.

I feel (remember, subjective...) that Pittsburgh is more diverse than Denver. I recognize that the stats don't bear that out, and I fully admit that part of it is because I spent entirely too much time in the Oakland / Squirrel Hill area (that's where the universities are). I can find a restaurant for every ethnic cuisine I can think of. If I want to know *blah* about *blah* culture I know exactly what resources are available to find that out. There may be far fewer cultural minorities in Pittsburgh *by number* but those that are there have created a permanent structure for which the transient populations can live and benefit from. I don't get the feeling those structures exist in Denver.

I just suppose I don't get why we're so passionately debating back and forth over something so completely and utterly subjective. Does anyone see where I'm coming from here?

[wanttomoveeast]

oh yes, I see exactly where you are coming from. I totally agree too. I have repeatedly said things like, oh well, this is just opinion, mine isn't the right one, just an opinion. And some people on this thread just freaked. It seems to have gone wayyyy overboard. It really is subjective. And you can skew statistics however you want them to work for you.

[enigmakairos]

My girl... (high five)...

Originally Posted by wanttomoveeast

oh yes, I see exactly where you are coming from. I totally agree too. I have repeatedly said things like, oh well, this is just opinion, mine isn't the right one, just an opinion. And some people on this thread just freaked. It seems to have gone wayyyy overboard. It really is subjective. And you can skew statistics however you want them to work for you.

[wanttomoveeast]

thanks friend!!!