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...or at least for people who have been here a long time. Am I the only person upset by what's been happening to my city the past few years?
It seems like every bit of character is being sapped from this city. Does anyone else find all the new apartment buildings astoundingly ugly, especially when compared to what they're replacing?
Flood Middle School in Englewood is gone, Gates is gone (both were ~100 years old). Union Station is no longer gritty and just... honest, more like something out of Beverly Hills. Anyone remember what Highlands used to be like? When it was just an honest working-class neighborhood full of gorgeous old houses? "RiNo" is clearly a scheme to take the old industrial character out of North Denver and replace it with the same corporate trendy look we're seeing all over the city. Tennyson St south of I-70 -- I talked to the owner of a hardware store that was going out of business after more than 80 years; he told me his family business was being destroyed by skyrocketing property taxes. All over the place empty spaces and vacant lots are filling up.
I could go on and on. The thing all these places have in common is that brand new apartment complexes are replacing whatever used to be there. The apartment complexes with the bizarre angles that make them look like they're sinking into the ground or something... The ketchup-and-mustard color schemes... Is this really what we want Denver to look like?
I understand blight is a bad thing, and I'm not saying Denver's economy should be depressed. But is everyone really so overjoyed to see the city handed over to developers like this? Does anyone else feel that the destiny of a given neighborhood or historic building should be in the hands of those who got attached to it throughout their whole lives? Was anyone else heartbroken to see Gates torn down? Couldn't it have been refurbished as a museum of Denver's industrial past, or couldn't something have been done with it that could have kept it intact as a landmark? As something to simply anchor your psyche, to remind you that you're home, that you're in Denver?
Does anyone remember when Denver was a down-to-Earth place not pandering to wealthy "young professionals"? When you couldn't find a suit-and-tie kind of restaurant in the whole city? When, to put it in more concrete terms, you could find an apartment you could actually afford?
All over the place I hear people celebrating the suicide of Denver, all of whom are newcomers. If there's money here, that's good and that's all that matters, period. But I've been here my whole life and I'm sad to see the direction the city has gone, and the new character it seems to have. I've sensed a new mean-spiritedness taking root here over the past ten years or so. You can feel it in traffic, out in public, at the Lightrail stations, at the grocery stores. I remember when the city was laid back, and not in a "microbrew-weed-bluegrass" way, but in a real way, such that people seemed to respect you even if your hair was out of place or your shirt was stained.
Anyway I'm just wondering if any other life-long or long-time Denverites feel the same way.
I read your large post and one thing stuck out among everything else that set the tone and level of your discussion:
Does anyone remember when Denver was a down-to-Earth place not pandering to wealthy "young professionals"? When you couldn't find a suit-and-tie kind of restaurant in the whole city?
That is total nonsense. There were many restaurants, clubs and dining establishment that required a suit-and-tie in the past. In addition, social norms of dress were much more stringent and proper dress was required in many more establishments. I have been here 36 years and I should know very much about that subject as I am a graduate of the CIA and I worked, consulted and purchased for many hotels, restaurants and clubs.
It tells me that you are of the lower social class and consequently would not even have noticed places that required more formal dress. So, that everything you criticize is from your prospective of being from that lower economic social class. I do not mean this statement pejoratively but only as an observation of reality.
You do not understand economics of development. Gates Rubber was a disaster of environmental pollution and needed too much remediation that was not economically feasible.
Union Station, which you find should have remained gritty, tells me you really nothing about how much of the building was abandoned and decayed. I worked on the public transit projects and got a chance to see behind the scenes the floors and the tunnels. The building was a disaster and was not utilized and it needed development. Not only do we now have exquisite development of restaurants and a fine hotel but we have a broader utilization for public transit. However, you view it from your prospective of being too much of "Beverley Hills". So you are not of the class--many are and appreciate those amenities.
I live near Tennyson Street in Berkeley and I have seen it over many decades. It was not well utilized and now with renewal of the neighborhood it has better character and better restaurants and at the some time preservation of that which existed. I guess what you would prefer the old gritty Amusement Park with the low class looser hanging out in the parking lot--looking for trouble. That is what I saw when I was came here. Keep in mind the redevelopment of that Elitch's started the renewal of the area and we are now trying to renew the old theater. Have you been to a fund raiser? I have but I wore a suite and tie--that would leave you out!
I have been to Tennyson Street Hardware over many years and it suffered the same fate as many small hardware stores across the country. Actually, what killed it was the lower class with less money who found value in the larger chains--not necessarily the arrival of the more wealthy residents in the area because they could and would and had the money to support these higher priced smaller shops. They constantly voice their opinion and support for these places. Recently I was at that store, I saw the richer "yuppies" in that store--not the lower class--they shopped at Walmart. The owner just got tired and old and perhaps wanted the big bucks in selling his property for retirement.
In all the years, we had no grocery stores in immediate downtown. Now, with more wealthy resident living in the Platte Valley, a King Supers is being built and there has been recent announcement for a Whole Foods. So, are we to go back to the lower class, little money of the residents of the area and have no shopping and no stores and no groceries?
The same can be said for all your blue collar criticism prospective of change and progress. We cannot just sit back and let your mentality and level of understanding determine what the City should offer or should become. Wealth residents are extremely important to the welfare and economic prosperity of our city. Many of those who come here are the best and the brightest with good education and they desire services. You may not like the look or the feel but you do not alone drive the economy.
You do not like the new style of architecture but there have been many more buildings that have been renewed and restored because of the wealth flowing into this city. You need to look up and stop stooping under a myopic vision of what does and did exist.
There are many, many areas that cater to other classes. So you do not get the wrong impression that I only support the wealthy and their venues. I have often championed on this post this older areas on Federal, Colfax and Broadway. I have said I enjoy the patina of the old reflected in the people and the building. Actually I shop those that cater to the lower class because of the value. I have no need or desire or want to shop in the fancy stores were the rich shop but I accept the need for them to exist. Yes, I fondly remember the downtown Woolworth's as one of my favorite places but I do not let the idea that it is gone cloud my view of the what is needed in this city.
I am from NYC, one of the riches cities in the world with all the glitz and glamour that you decry. Yet, the old, the working class areas and people survive to this day and they benefit from the monied classes that live, work and visit the Big Apple. Denver will also enjoy the same balances of culture and opportunities for all classes.
Livecontent
Last edited by livecontent; 11-11-2014 at 08:47 PM..
My grievances are minor, given my appreciation for living in a forward moving city:
I don't like some of the condo/apartment buildings in Uptown and Golden Triangle - (the blocky white beige ones). Aesthetically they don't match the brick/iron look of the area. I agree with the "ketchup and mustard" statement - although I haven't seen this scheme exactly I agree it's good to build on the history of the area architecturally.
I don't like scrape offs when a house of disproportionate size is built in close proximity to another - changing light, views, and ambiance. However this is a problem in many cities, and any I've seen many here that are reasonable and tastefully done.
I don't the fact that some long term residents or businesses of a neighborhood can be forced out by high property taxes. A business I frequent regularly in RiNo will most likely be bought up in a few years, and the building is nothing special to be preserved either. But this isn't unique to Denver. It stinks when a place you like no longer exists, but one must adapt and accept it.
I feel bad for anyone moving here as a student, or on a starter salary, who wants to rent downtown in their own place. Sadly even studios rents are at ridiculous prices. But so it is with supply and demand. You can still find roommates and shared spaces for a reasonable price, and unlike NYC you'll get more than a closet.
I think that "lifestyle centers", (what became of enclosed malls), with their faux main streets are dull and a half-baked idea. There's nothing special from one to the other (nationwide not just Colorado). It's not walkable or a "downtown" of any sort (you still have to drive there) and while I can drive across the country without referencing a map, I frequently pull up Google Maps when entering and exiting these mazes just to find the best way in and out. But this is probably just nostalgia - as mall traffic back in the day was just as bad.
I don't like the traffic - I sympathize with anyone that must commute. I DO like what's happening in Cherry Creek. I like the increase in density.
That said, living in a desirable city with many vibrant and unique neighborhoods, great restaurants, culture, good weather, above average transportation options, a great airport with competition, and tons of recreational opportunities beats out the negatives.
A friend of mine in Baker was complaining about all the traffic, parking problems, and activity on South Broadway, which has changed drastically over the past 10 years. My response was that, "many cities would kill to have the problem of too many businesses on their Broadway..."
Related - I read an essay recently about how in retrospect it was a dumb idea to build Elitch's in the central Platte Valley. While not in demand at the time the land now is prime real estate, and is eaten up by a mediocre amusement park only used half or three fourths of the year.
Last edited by jamesdenver; 11-11-2014 at 09:14 PM..
It seems to me that your nostalgia is for a city that never really existed except in your mind.
I was absolutely not heartbroken to see Gates come down. It has needed to go for a long time. It was an abandoned old factory that I drove by almost every day. I do agree that the apartments that went up to the south of the main building are ugly, but not as ugly as a toxic old factory.
I like that I have tons of interesting dining options.
I like that I have been in a Union Station 3 times in the past month after not having any reason to go in it at all in the past 3 decades.
I like that the city is safe compared to most other cities its size.
I like that young, affluent people are bringing their money, ideas, businesses, and work ethic here.
I love what Denver has become and where it is heading.
I'm a third generation Denver native. I think you're romanticizing a nostalgic past that really wasn't so great in a lot of those "landmarks" you mention.
I don't miss the old Gates Rubber building at all. Heartbroken? No way! That was an eyesore that needed to go for some time now. No historical architectural charm to that building whatsoever.
Forget how old the building was, Flood Middle School was a bad school.
I think the new Union Station is awesome. It doesn't remind me of "Beverly Hills" at all. I'm perplexed where that statement comes from-- have you actually been to Beverly Hills, CA at all? FYI, there's no trains or train stations or transit hubs in that small city at all. Or is calling something "Beverly Hills" just an expression? The only place in Denver that could be compared with Beverly Hills is Cherry Creek North-- and that's old news-- Cherry Creek North has been Cherry Creek North for as long as I can remember. What Union Station does remind me of is a retro New York-- kind of like what I imagine the Grand Central Station in New York City to have been like in the first half of the 20th century, combined with an old hotel feel.
My view is if Denver ever had some distinct character that was lost, it was lost a long, long time ago, not just in the last decade, but well before I was born (mid 1980s). Denver is fundamentally a fairly bland, ordinary, middle American city, albeit wrapped up in a nice functional package, and if anything, in very recent years a more unique character has been developing. Architecture and landmarks may be important components of what gives a city character, but they're not the most important components-- it's the people that matter.
I do agree with you that much of the new style of architecture is butt ugly. I'm not even sure what you call it-- modernist? postmodernist? industrial? neo-brutalist? Whatever it is called, I agree with you that a lot of it is an eyesore. I prefer traditional designs over trendy stuff personally.
I've traveled around the country for work and I can affirm that Denver is still one of the most casually dressed major cities in the country. That has not changed at all. In fact, the only restaurants that I know of that require suit/ tie are places that have been around for decades and always required formal attire. I'm not personally aware of any newly opened restaurants that require such dress code.
The only complaints that I do have about the direction how Denver is moving are 1) the extreme increase in the cost of housing, both rentals and selling prices, 2) increased traffic congestion, 3) the smug attitudes of the people who think they are so hip and cool and elite for living in so-called "urban" trendy neighborhoods in central Denver, many of which aren't actually all that urban at all.
There are a lot of mean spirited people in Denver, no doubt, but they've always been there-- it's nothing new and different. And I don't think they characterize the city. More congestion, yes. If anything, when I lived in Phoenix for 4 years I encountered a lot more human scum per capita there than in Denver.
Okay, let me try to make a more concise list of complaints:
-Denver is wantonly destroying the historical buildings that carry its legacy. As these disappear and cookie-cutter apartment complexes replace them, there is a sense of placelessness: Denver looks like any other city anywhere and thus loses its soul and character, and residents care for it less.
-Becoming a "world-class city" via unrestrained growth leads to a congested, stressful, overcrowded place to live. Maybe I don't necessarily want to live in LA or Beijing, and I am nostalgic for the quieter, more spacious Denver I remember.
-Young professionals bring their money here, but lots of money pouring in means gentrification and displacement of poor people, many of whom have lived here their whole lives. As ever more money pours into Littleton, my friend's disabled parents are being pushed out as their apartment complex is ditching Section 8. They are old and crippled. There is nothing "new" or exciting about that. It's just ugly and sad.
Sorry, but I don't consider either the Gates rubber factor or Flood Middle School important historic buildings. Good riddance to both of them.
Many well-read residents of Denver would emphatically disagree with you.
I'd like to add that Denver is about 150 years old. Any 100+ year old buildings of any kind possess the aesthetic of the era of Denver's birth. When they're destroyed, nothing can ever replace them.
Last edited by iamthejake2000; 11-11-2014 at 11:43 PM..
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