Thoughts on all the Panhandlers (Denver, Boulder: income, taxes, lawsuit)

[jrodgers_3]

I'm admittedly not well traveled, so I don't know if there are a higher amount of panhandlers here than most other places, but it seems to be a lot. In the Dallas area it is illegal. You rarely see someone out holding a sign or bugging people about money, but its always in bad areas of the city and never lasts for more than a few hours before the police handle the situation. I think the amount of "homeless" people begging for money around here really tarnishes this city. Isn't there a ton of homeless shelters in Denver? Are there not enough? I would rather tax money be used to fund shelters than have people walk by my car window on a daily basis. Am I alone here? Does this not bother people who are from here? Why isn't it part of the local political scene?

[artisan4]

I didn't see panhandlers here until the Reagan years. In the early '80s they could be pretty aggressive on the Pearl St. Mall in Boulder (Rainbow kids, usually). I have not been bothered since then. As far as homeless people with signs in Denver, I have seen quite a few over the years but no aggressive ones. You'd think the trickle down would be working by now.

[SkyDog77]

Cities that have panhandling bans in place are not treating the homeless better. Don't kid yourself. Just because you didn't see them in Dallas certainly does not mean that they are getting better service from the city. Out of sight out of mind is more likely the case because of the ban.

Here's a great write up on panhandling: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/06/us...bans.html?_r=0

The thought process of "if we are inhospitable enough, they will leave or get a job." Is completely flawed logic and does not address the root problem.

[hammertime33]

In the Denver metro area, there are about 19 homeless people for every 10,000 people. Out of the largest 100 metro areas in the US, this ranks 30th for largest per capita homeless population. For comparison, Tampa is #1 with 57 per 10,000, and Dallas is #87 with 9 per 10,000.

http://b.3cdn.net/naeh/a18b62e5f015e9a9b8_pdm6iy33d.pdf

And panhandling is protected speech. The 1st Amendment allows me or a homeless person to beg another for help. If the city of Dallas is violating the 1st Amendment rights of the homeless, I hope somebody brings a major civil rights lawsuit against the city.

[flyingcat2k]

Panhandling in Denver is actually down from where it was even in the mid 2000's. The city passed an ordinance stipulating that panhandlers cannot be within 25' of any bank entrance, ATM, highway entrance or bus stop. It shutdown most of them in the 16th Street Mall. They used to be very aggressive on 16th but the last time I was there, there were a few of them and not on 16th Street itself.

My problem with panhandlers is that some of them, particularly the ones at the highways, made decent money (40k to 60k). All of it is tax free. I know if I sell over $600 on E-bay, the IRS is going to come knocking. Why should regular people have to pay taxes but the guy standing on the street corner pay 0 plus get food stamps, assisted housing, Medicaid, ect? These people actually oppress the poor people they claim to be by sucking up available resources that they really don't need because they have a decent income.

[Mike from back east]

Originally Posted by flyingcat2k

Panhandling in Denver is actually down from where it was even in the mid 2000's. The city passed an ordinance stipulating that panhandlers cannot be within 25' of any bank entrance, ATM, highway entrance or bus stop. It shutdown most of them in the 16th Street Mall. They used to be very aggressive on 16th but the last time I was there, there were a few of them and not on 16th Street itself.

My problem with panhandlers is that some of them, particularly the ones at the highways, made decent money (40k to 60k). All of it is tax free. I know if I sell over $600 on E-bay, the IRS is going to come knocking. Why should regular people have to pay taxes but the guy standing on the street corner pay 0 plus get food stamps, assisted housing, Medicaid, ect? These people actually oppress the poor people they claim to be by sucking up available resources that they really don't need because they have a decent income.

That's why we never give a cent to these people. If we stop giving money to panhandlers then they'll go away.

[SkyDog77]

Originally Posted by flyingcat2k

Panhandling in Denver is actually down from where it was even in the mid 2000's. The city passed an ordinance stipulating that panhandlers cannot be within 25' of any bank entrance, ATM, highway entrance or bus stop. It shutdown most of them in the 16th Street Mall. They used to be very aggressive on 16th but the last time I was there, there were a few of them and not on 16th Street itself.

My problem with panhandlers is that some of them, particularly the ones at the highways, made decent money (40k to 60k). All of it is tax free. I know if I sell over $600 on E-bay, the IRS is going to come knocking. Why should regular people have to pay taxes but the guy standing on the street corner pay 0 plus get food stamps, assisted housing, Medicaid, ect? These people actually oppress the poor people they claim to be by sucking up available resources that they really don't need because they have a decent income.

Proof that most panhandlers make $40-$60K please. That sounds made up.

[Timmyy]

Originally Posted by SkyDog77

Proof that most panhandlers make $40-$60K please. That sounds made up.

There was a story on the news awhile back where they followed a guy as he was done panhandling he immediately got into his big SUV and then drove to his house. He is probably the exception but it just shows some of these guys are doing well. I will try to dig up the story.

[Mike from back east]

Originally Posted by Timmyy

There was a story on the news awhile back where they followed a guy as he was done panhandling he immediately got into his big SUV and then drove to his house. He is probably the exception but it just shows some of these guys are doing well. I will try to dig up the story.

I recall similar stories too, but such anecdotes are hard to track down, just like old urban myths about a welfare queen with a dozen kids.

[ChrisFromChicago]

The violation of freedom of speech seems to be a very big weakness against pan handling laws.

That is why I would not ban pan handling, I would ban giving money to pan handlers. Make it a pretty heft fine $150 to give money to a person who is begging or asking for money on a public street, park, etc.



I know of no evidence (except the qualitative interview of pan handlers) that people who collect money on the street are better off or worse off. So I would ban it for being a nuisance, if nothing else