Colorado State Fair to Denver? (Aurora, Pueblo: schools, deed, subsidized)

[McGowdog]

I'd be surprised to see the Fair move to Denver even though it's already a forgone conclusion amongst you "experts".

Possession is 9/10s of the law.
If
The State Fair serves all of the South Eastern portion of the state, remote as it is, which includes the Ark Valley, perhaps northern New Mexico, the San Luis Valley, etc.

Who cares about 3M of debt, when it brings in 25M to the region?

Denver has The Taste of Colorado and whatever other garbage they can schedule in to keep folks away from the Fair.

The State wants a fight? They'll get one. My money is on Pueblo.

[mbalmedpoet]

As a previous poster had mentioned, the fair was in Pueblo before it was even known as the state fair. You also must not forget that until the last 50 years or so, Pueblo was the second largest city in the state.

Does Pueblo have an image problem right now? Yes. Does it need to step up a bit? I believe so.
Will moving the fair to Denver solve everything? No. Elitch's is still open for rides. Someone mentioned outside venues for concerts (that defeats the entire purpose of the fair.) What about a Bronco preseason game during the fair? Attendance will likely be smaller. Along with other events that Denver already has.

I read the comments on the Denver Post article as well, not only were they ill informed, they were vile and hateful. Moving the fair not only depresses the area even further. (It's an area that is just beginning to climb out of the depression.) This would alienate an entire region, the whole Southeastern (Southern) Colorado, Northern New Mexico area.

Denver may have economic strength, but does it really care that much about the fair? Pueblo may not have the money, but it's people have the heart.



http://www.pueblo.us/DocumentCenter/Home/View/606

[eatsDEN]

Originally Posted by McGowdog

Who cares about 3M of debt, when it brings in 25M to the region?

Some reports indicate a loss for the last decade or so; and others indicate money being made.

SO does the fair make money currently, or not?

Fact of the matter is if the event is actually a money losing endeavour (has a negative cash flow,) something has to be adjusted in order to maintain the viability of the fair - in my estimation.
You can't just keep doing what you've been doing in a situation like this.

[Josseppie]

Originally Posted by eatsDEN

Some reports indicate a loss for the last decade or so; and others indicate money being made.

SO does the fair make money currently, or not?

Fact of the matter is if the event is actually a money losing endeavour (has a negative cash flow,) something has to be adjusted in order to maintain the viability of the fair - in my estimation.
You can't just keep doing what you've been doing in a situation like this.

The thing is the fair itself makes money its the off season that causes it to lose money and to a lesser extent the FFA and 4H as that is the education part of the fair. If the state really wanted to fix the problem they would do what they did with the stock show in Denver. Invest money in the infrastructure so it can make money during the off season or at least break even then show a bit of a profit instead of losing money. Instead some want to grandstand and in my opinion that is all this is. Where where the budget hawks when the stock show wanted hundreds of millions of dollars or they might leave?

Originally Posted by mbalmedpoet

As a previous poster had mentioned, the fair was in Pueblo before it was even known as the state fair. You also must not forget that until the last 50 years or so, Pueblo was the second largest city in the state.

Does Pueblo have an image problem right now? Yes. Does it need to step up a bit? I believe so.
Will moving the fair to Denver solve everything? No. Elitch's is still open for rides. Someone mentioned outside venues for concerts (that defeats the entire purpose of the fair.) What about a Bronco preseason game during the fair? Attendance will likely be smaller. Along with other events that Denver already has.

I read the comments on the Denver Post article as well, not only were they ill informed, they were vile and hateful. Moving the fair not only depresses the area even further. (It's an area that is just beginning to climb out of the depression.) This would alienate an entire region, the whole Southeastern (Southern) Colorado, Northern New Mexico area.

Denver may have economic strength, but does it really care that much about the fair? Pueblo may not have the money, but it's people have the heart.



http://www.pueblo.us/DocumentCenter/Home/View/606

Great post. One thing to add is when the fair is on the entire city attention is on the fair. Would that happen in Denver? Most likely not just be one of the many events going on.

[eatsDEN]

so, I am understanding from what you are saying that the fair is well attended, etc. and makes some money -- but not enough to cover costs associated with maintaining the venue & related (etc) on a year round basis?

why are not more events held there throughout the rest of the year? to help cover costs...

[Josseppie]

Originally Posted by eatsDEN

so, I am understanding from what you are saying that the fair is well attended, etc. and makes some money -- but not enough to cover costs associated with maintaining the venue & related (etc) on a year round basis?

why are not more events held there throughout the rest of the year? to help cover costs...

Yes. Last year it had over 500,000 people if you count the sneak a peak and all the revenue streams where up.

This is from my earlier post with the link to the source:

Food/Beverage
$2,287,324
$2,152,992
increase of $134,332 (6%)
Gate
$925,256
$861,015
increase of $64,241 (7%)
Carnival
$902,415
$766,181
increase of $136,234 (17%)

Press Release

The same problem the fair has is one the stock shows has and why the state is spending hundreds of millions of dollars to upgrade it. The city/county has done some for the fair including a nice events center when I was in college but more needs to be done why I say if the state was serious about making the fair better they would sit down with the county/ city/ and fair officials to work out a master plan. I have said for years that the fair is a underutilized gem in Pueblo and everyone should work together to bring it up to its full potential. I mean even if the fair were to leave the state would still own and have to maintain the buildings. Why not work on it now instead of then?

[eatsDEN]

Some of the articles I read indicate the Fair being about 3.7M in the red last year...
the State chipped in 2M to help cover the losses...

so, basically significant increases in revenue, on an annual basis, are required to get the entity into a profitable or break even position.

do you think that is possible? Could the local economy/population support that sort of annual growth target?

If the local impact of the fair is estimated @ ~29M, could a portion of those funds be diverted to the Fair's operating entity? (ie higher taxes, a mill levy, etc.)


Tough situation really...

[Josseppie]

Originally Posted by eatsDEN

Some of the articles I read indicate the Fair being about 3.7M in the red last year...
the State chipped in 2M to help cover the losses...

so, basically significant increases in revenue, on an annual basis, are required to get the entity into a profitable or break even position.

do you think that is possible? Could the local economy/population support that sort of annual growth target?

If the local impact of the fair is estimated @ ~29M, could a portion of those funds be diverted to the Fair's operating entity? (ie higher taxes, a mill levy, etc.)


Tough situation really...

The city is growing with large developments proposed plus the 3 county region has about 1 million people so if they could work out a plan with the state much like was done with the stock show in Denver my answer is yes.

[eatsDEN]

Originally Posted by Josseppie

The same problem the fair has is one the stock shows has and why the state is spending hundreds of millions of dollars to upgrade it.

I'm not so sure, I thought that the stock show was in the black financially annually -- sure, deferred maint. is/was a serious issue - but the event and grounds was overall a money maker. It was poor capital planning that was at issue.

my understanding was that the facilities was considered too old, etc., and the threat was made to pull the event unless the updates were made.

Originally Posted by Josseppie

The city is growing with large developments proposed plus the 3 county region has about 1 million people so if they could work out a plan with the state much like was done with the stock show in Denver my answer is yes.

so, ~10 years out? to build and get the population base in place... What about jobs and economy to support the new developments, what is in the pipeline in that regard? ~30-40M in losses in the meantime...

again, tough issue

[Josseppie]

Keep in mind that this is the only venue like it south of Denver so I suspect if improvements were made you would see a noticeable difference immediately.

I could be wrong but I remember the stock show saying if improvements were not made it we have to consider leaving Denver?