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Old 02-10-2015, 07:01 PM
 
14,920 posts, read 11,137,155 times
Reputation: 4828

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Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsprit View Post
Your attempts at playing lawyer really are exasperating ... you really dream up all this stuff without any real knowledge of Tenant Law in Colorado, trying to rationalize your view which is unfortunately completely wrong.

"forced entry" by a property owner entering the premises using their own key and in accordance with their terms of the lease access is not a "criminal trespass".

legally, however, such access is defined as a "forced entry" whether or not the tenants are present.

I'd served them with the required advance notice of my visit to the premises per the lease terms and made my visit during the day when it was reasonable and proper to do so. Having given them the advance notice of my intended visit, they'd arranged with a neighbor to keep an eye out for my arrival while they were at work. The neighbor called them and advised what I was doing ... girlfriend and I moving household goods and personal effects to the curb. That's when the guys contacted the tenant's rights folk and I got the subsequent contact from them.

I repeat, my actions ... which aren't particularly dissimilar to what you've been telling the OP to do ... weren't in conformity with Colorado tenant civil rights law. I took matters into my own hands at what subsequently was revealed to me to be a sizable risk via the civil rights violations I was doing by the improperly conducted eviction. I was lucky in that one of the tenants had cause to not involve the authorities, but I didn't know that when I put their stuff on the curb and changed the locks.
Sure, if it's in accordance with the terms of the lease. But if you enter the rental outside of the terms of the lease, then you absolutely can be charged with criminal trespass. The fact that you were there to unlawfully remove them indicated to me you hadn't entered the property pursuant to the terms of the lease.
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Old 02-11-2015, 09:11 AM
 
Location: Colorado
2,483 posts, read 3,520,259 times
Reputation: 2674
All the pretend lawyers in here know nothing. Not unlike real lawyers.
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Old 02-11-2015, 09:14 AM
 
11,256 posts, read 43,216,810 times
Reputation: 14905
Quote:
Originally Posted by hammertime33 View Post
Sure, if it's in accordance with the terms of the lease. But if you enter the rental outside of the terms of the lease, then you absolutely can be charged with criminal trespass. The fact that you were there to unlawfully remove them indicated to me you hadn't entered the property pursuant to the terms of the lease.
After all of your posts asserting that the only recourse and protections that a tenant has for their interests is by suit in the civil courts, you've finally acknowledged that there are Tenant CIVIL RIGHTS issues at play here which have criminal legal protection for the tenant from the landlord.

Further, you now acknowledge that "kicking them out" is an unlawful act by a landlord. That's what you advocated the OP do to their tenant, who does have tenant civil rights.

What you're now saying is that the tenant could call the cops about a "criminal trespass" against their personal property by a landlord ... where you previously asserted that no such gov't agencies would come to the assistance of the tenant.

Thank you for finally agreeing with my points re the tenant's CIVIL RIGHTS which are very well protected by gov't agencies in the State of Colorado. It's but a phone call and complaint to the authorities and doesn't, as you previously asserted, require that the tenant seek relief through the civil courts as their only recourse.

You now acknowledge that there are burdens upon the legal behavior of the landlord with resulting criminal legal consequences; thanks again for finally acknowledging that fact. Welcome to the real world of property management and tenant's civil rights.


PS: My lease form, a fairly standard document available at most office supply stores, indicates that I (or my agents, my professional property managers, or our contractors) may enter the leased premises at anytime for any reason whatsoever to inspect, repair, maintain, show, or for any other cause upon reasonable prior notice to the tenant. While we indicate that we don't intend to abuse this right and respect the quiet enjoyment of the premises by the tenant, I (or my property managers) am the sole judge of what is reasonable and routine access to the premises upon reasonable prior notice to the tenants. While you may assert that my intentions upon entering the premises were not legal, the fact is that I reserve the right to enter them for any reasonable purpose whatsoever.

Since my leases include a (fairly standard) clause for immediate termination of the lease if the premises are used for illegal activity, I've found it to be valuable when we suspected that such activity was taking place there ... such as illegal drug use/dealing. That was the case a number of years ago (prior to legal MJ in CO) when a neighbor called me to complain that it looked like drug use/dealing was going on at the house. Upon my prior notification visit to check this out, I entered the premises to observe in plain view a hookah in the living room and a strong odor of MJ in the house. There was a set of scales on the table and baggies and organic debris in plain sight. My call to the cops had a fast response and subsequently, the tenants were charged with a low level possession. Enough to invoke my "illegal activity" clause, and the tenants departed within a few days. I believe that once they were under the scrutiny of the local cops, that they wanted to move on for their (alleged) dealing.

Last edited by sunsprit; 02-11-2015 at 09:25 AM..
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Old 02-11-2015, 09:34 AM
 
14,920 posts, read 11,137,155 times
Reputation: 4828
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsprit View Post
After all of your posts asserting that the only recourse and protections that a tenant has for their interests is by suit in the civil courts, you've finally acknowledged that there are Tenant CIVIL RIGHTS issues at play here which have criminal legal protection for the tenant from the landlord.
No. I simply stated that if a landlord violates a criminal law, then the landlord is subject to criminal sanctions. But in the OPs situation, criminal trespass is not possible since he and his tenant share the same bedroom.

And again, in Colorado, tenants only recourse is to SUE in a court. I'm still waiting for you to tell me what magical Colorado agency will find a landlord guilty of violating the law without due process and impose fines and the such on him.

Perhaps you could also tell me what the fines are - as in what dollar amount. How big of a fine would the OP be facing in his particular situation for kicking out his friend, and what agency would be imposing the fine?

Quote:
Further, you now acknowledge that "kicking them out" is an unlawful act by a landlord. That's what you advocated the OP do to their tenant, who does have tenant civil rights.
Yeah. From the getgo I've said kicking him out is unlawful, but nonetheless probably a good idea. What's your point?

Quote:
What you're now saying is that the tenant could call the cops about a "criminal trespass" against their personal property by a landlord ... where you previously asserted that no such gov't agencies would come to the assistance of the tenant.
Again, no. I said that entering your tenants rental without permission or authority is criminal trespassing. That's not possible in the OPs situation since he and his tenant share the same bedroom in the same apartment.

Quote:
Thank you for finally agreeing with my points re the tenant's CIVIL RIGHTS which are very well protected by gov't agencies in the State of Colorado. It's but a phone call and complaint to the authorities and doesn't, as you previously asserted, require that the tenant seek relief through the civil courts as their only recourse.

You now acknowledge that there are burdens upon the legal behavior of the landlord with resulting criminal legal consequences; thanks again for finally acknowledging that fact. Welcome to the real world of property management and tenant's civil rights.
I don't agree with you at all because you're dead wrong.
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Old 02-11-2015, 06:51 PM
 
16,025 posts, read 19,580,121 times
Reputation: 26195
Quote:
Originally Posted by sunsprit View Post
Sorry, your premise is all wrong.

A person can establish legal residency in Colorado by doing nothing more than arriving here, declaring that they are intend to reside here, get a domicile, change their mailing address to a Colorado address, and get employment here. In fact, from the moment they do these things they have a legal requirement to obtain a Colorado license plate on their vehicle in a fairly short time frame and should get a Colorado driver's license ASAP ... along with a Colorado car vehicle insurance policy.

Quoting Colorado DMV:

"If you recently established Colorado residency, you have 90 days to register your vehicle and obtain Colorado license plates.

The state defines residency as:

You own or operate a business within Colorado.
You’ve resided in Colorado for 90 days.
You work in Colorado."

It most certainly does not take 6 months to establish residency here. And as I've pointed out, you've got to obtain Colorado license plates on your vehicle much sooner than that if you reside here and are gainfully employed here.

Even if their friend hasn't done these things ... he still has established a legal tenancy and to be removed from their premises requires that they go through the full eviction process if he won't voluntarily leave in a timely manner.

There's no "loophole" about him not being a resident here. The law only looks at whether or not he's established a tenancy. Having been allowed to move into the premises and they collected rent and utilities pro-rated for his occupancy clearly establishes that tenancy without any further qualifications.
That's why I stated it as I did...So that the OP would check to be sure....You saved him/her the trouble
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Old 02-11-2015, 07:42 PM
 
Location: The Berk in Denver, CO USA
13,953 posts, read 20,213,178 times
Reputation: 22591
Uh, people, the OP has not returned.
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Old 02-11-2015, 07:44 PM
 
Location: wannabeinkentucky
861 posts, read 1,451,275 times
Reputation: 1041
Quote:
Originally Posted by otterprods View Post
All the pretend lawyers in here know nothing. Not unlike real lawyers.
So true.
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Old 02-11-2015, 10:28 PM
 
2 posts, read 15,105 times
Reputation: 10
Quote:
Originally Posted by otterprods View Post
The bickering between hammer time and sunsprit sort of illustrates why just politely asking the guy to leave and him amicably agreeing has not happened.

@ cr0756: Have you just told him in a respectful way that it really is time to go and you need him to be out by x date. If so, what has his response been? If you can handle it that way it will save everyone so much headache and potential trouble.
I have been politely telling him that he has until March 31st to move out, since the middle of December. I created this post to find out what legal options (if any) I would be required to take before he moved out. I doubt he would sue or file charges, and if the worst happened, I could simply call his parents to discuss the situation and tell them how difficult this person has been.

It has now resorted to petty things. I was home last week with my girlfriend, and after getting back I asked him to take the trash out (which was overflowing the container) he said "no, because I already had taken it out this week" (keep in mind my other roommate wasn't home that week either). Then, as I was walking away, he said "X roommate did your dishes!" Which was false, as A. I didn't leave any dishes, and B. my roommate confirmed that they were hers.

I know that if I was in his shoes, I would have already moved out, rather than continuing to live in an unwelcome apartment. It's a little ridiculous, but oh well.
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Old 02-12-2015, 06:09 AM
 
Location: CO
2,591 posts, read 5,988,804 times
Reputation: 3407
Quote:
Originally Posted by cr0756 View Post
. . . have been politely telling him that he has until March 31st to move out, since the middle of December. I created this post to find out what legal options (if any) I would be required to take before he moved out. I doubt he would sue or file charges, and if the worst happened, I could simply call his parents to discuss the situation and tell them how difficult this person has been. . . .
.
If you've told him he has until March 31, what's your problem?

If you have other serious concerns, it's time to call his parents.

Last edited by suzco; 02-12-2015 at 06:24 AM..
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Old 03-30-2015, 06:58 PM
 
2,409 posts, read 2,628,712 times
Reputation: 1807
Quote:
Originally Posted by cr0756 View Post
I have been politely telling him that he has until March 31st to move out, since the middle of December. I created this post to find out what legal options (if any) I would be required to take before he moved out. I doubt he would sue or file charges, and if the worst happened, I could simply call his parents to discuss the situation and tell them how difficult this person has been.

It has now resorted to petty things. I was home last week with my girlfriend, and after getting back I asked him to take the trash out (which was overflowing the container) he said "no, because I already had taken it out this week" (keep in mind my other roommate wasn't home that week either). Then, as I was walking away, he said "X roommate did your dishes!" Which was false, as A. I didn't leave any dishes, and B. my roommate confirmed that they were hers.

I know that if I was in his shoes, I would have already moved out, rather than continuing to live in an unwelcome apartment. It's a little ridiculous, but oh well.
So how did the situation end up for you?
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