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Old 03-31-2015, 10:43 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
2,391 posts, read 1,797,390 times
Reputation: 1920

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert5 View Post
He isn't assuming so much, he has said that he knows three women that live in high priced areas of Denver that spend a disporportionate amount of their income on rent, and they complain about being financially stressed. Off the top of my head I can think of three such women in their 30s that spend 35+% of their income on rent/PITI because they choose to live in high priced areas of urban Denver (none of them actually work in Urban Denver) and are constantly financially stressed. They all have nice cars (financed) and buy new clothes. One makes ends meet only because she goes to school part time and gets a crazy amount of student loans. I don't believe there are that many people living in high priced areas of urban Denver going completely car less and buying used clothes.
Yes, thank you. I thought my examples were enough to at least illustrate what I was talking about. That is spot on.

GF is a first year teacher and lives in a brand new place in Baker. Cost of rent is definitely $1000+/mo in rent.

Another female friend lives in the Highlands and pays around $1200/mo and is always clamoring about her low-paying non-profit job. I think she makes in the low-$30k range.

Another female friend, who currently lives in Chicago, was living in high-priced areas like Wash Park and Cheesman Park. She was also making in the $30k range.

I made $72k last year, typically make $66k/yr, and think my $825/mo out in SE Denver is too steep. But apparently, being from the Midwest, I'm very ignorant when it comes to high rents/housing prices. Or at least that's the impression I get from reading some posters here. Apparently, I should be happy to pay $1200/mo in Commerce City, because that's so cheap and it such a great location. LOL!

Let's face it. The only ones who don't take an issue with this expensive COL issue fall into a few different categories.

A) They own homes and are loving the idea that they are sitting on huge investment returns by doing absolutely nothing but sitting on it. I had a buddy gleefully tell me that his house value went up almost $20k a couple months after he bought it and that was with him doing absolutely nothing to the house. Don't let these people fool you into believing what is affordable and what isn't, they are loving that the housing market is off the charts. They are extremely biased in this regard.

B) They have rental properties and love the idea that they are making a killing off them.

C) Come from higher COL areas like the West Coast and the East Coast, so they see Denver as a bargain.

D) They're absolutely infatuated with the city and will tear down anyone who disputes its greatness or critiques it in the least bit.

Last edited by Lafleur; 03-31-2015 at 11:26 PM..
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Old 04-01-2015, 05:58 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
898 posts, read 987,392 times
Reputation: 1366
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleur View Post
I think what you're saying is true for A LOT of people living in Denver. A lot are willing to give up financial stability (at least how I define it) for nicer living arrangements. Like all my female friends who spend $1000+ on rents and make nearly half of what I make in salary. They're not saving any money, nor do they have a lot of disposable income. But that's the life they choose...and it's also why rent is expensive as it is. Because they're willing to pay it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Robert5 View Post
He isn't assuming so much, he has said that he knows three women that live in high priced areas of Denver that spend a disporportionate amount of their income on rent, and they complain about being financially stressed. Off the top of my head I can think of three such women in their 30s that spend 35+% of their income on rent/PITI because they choose to live in high priced areas of urban Denver (none of them actually work in Urban Denver) and are constantly financially stressed. They all have nice cars (financed) and buy new clothes. One makes ends meet only because she goes to school part time and gets a crazy amount of student loans. I don't believe there are that many people living in high priced areas of urban Denver going completely car less and buying used clothes.
Sure...
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Old 04-01-2015, 06:22 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
898 posts, read 987,392 times
Reputation: 1366
Someone did mention trust fund babies. I forgot about them but that is a valid point. Some of these people's rents are subsidized by their parents. I personally am very jealous of them coming from an immigrant family with no money. I am proud of the fact that I've made it on my own two feet but make no mistake I'll happily subscribe to the trust fund baby club any day of the week.

With that said, I probably wouldn't make my kids ones

But yea my jealousy of them is known , must be nice to never worry about money and never having to hustle.... Anyway I'm digressing... That is a group that is alive and well in the US and probably take up a decent chunk of those high spenders... I don't personally know any, I've known more in nyc but I also don't jive well with those types so that's probably why.
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Old 04-01-2015, 09:20 AM
 
Location: Aurora, CO
6,525 posts, read 10,194,145 times
Reputation: 9752
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmyy View Post
There actually is a shortage of software engineers here in the metro area. My company always has positions open for them. I am in IT and sometimes I wish I went into development because of the money and endless opportunities but to me that is brain damage or I just don't think that way.

My title still has engineering in it though whether that means anything or not.

Related to the subject I have an uncle that bought a loft in LoDo. He is pushing 60 so he might look out of place among all the yutes.
Not to totally hijack the thread, but if you're in systems you may want to look into DevOps. It straddles the line between systems and development and good DevOps folks are essential nowadays.
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Old 04-01-2015, 09:47 AM
 
Location: In The Thin Air
12,245 posts, read 8,036,209 times
Reputation: 8900
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluescreen73 View Post
Not to totally hijack the thread, but if you're in systems you may want to look into DevOps. It straddles the line between systems and development and good DevOps folks are essential nowadays.
That is what I do and I couldn't agree more. The money is really good too.
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Old 04-01-2015, 09:58 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
898 posts, read 987,392 times
Reputation: 1366
DevOps is good. I like product development most (backend mostly, but I got some UI chops), but I am jealous of DevOps who have developers and other tech savvy people as clients. Minimizes PEBKAC errors
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Old 04-01-2015, 10:41 AM
 
Location: The analog world
17,087 posts, read 9,800,340 times
Reputation: 22736
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleur View Post
A) They own homes and are loving the idea that they are sitting on huge investment returns by doing absolutely nothing but sitting on it. I had a buddy gleefully tell me that his house value went up almost $20k a couple months after he bought it and that was with him doing absolutely nothing to the house. Don't let these people fool you into believing what is affordable and what isn't, they are loving that the housing market is off the charts. They are extremely biased in this regard.

B) They have rental properties and love the idea that they are making a killing off them.

C) Come from higher COL areas like the West Coast and the East Coast, so they see Denver as a bargain.

D) They're absolutely infatuated with the city and will tear down anyone who disputes its greatness or critiques it in the least bit.
A: Guilty, and I make no apologies for it, but I completely understand that there is an ugly underbelly to rising housing prices.

B: No, but I'm kicking myself for not buying that condo down the street four years ago.

C: Guilty, and once again I have nothing to apologize for here.

D: No; I am under no illusion that Denver is the perfect place for all. But it is the perfect place for my family at the moment.

Last edited by randomparent; 04-01-2015 at 10:52 AM..
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Old 04-01-2015, 10:45 AM
 
Location: Midwest
238 posts, read 615,313 times
Reputation: 180
Quote:
Originally Posted by Schumacher713 View Post
There are very few jobs that pay above 100K in your 20s. I am going to say next to none. You might be able to break 100K in your upper 20s at Exxon or something. As for how they afford it. It is called a roommate. Most my friends are engineers which are one of the highest paid jobs. I know of just a few that are above 100. Most people don't make above 100 even in their 30s and 40s. The pay might be slightly higher in Denver, but I doubt that much.
Particular industries such as STEM fields absolutely pay people in their 20s 6-figure salaries all across the country if you apply yourself and have the ability move around the corporate "jungle gym". (The business world, in many cases, isn't as simple as shifting up a ladder anymore.) I personally do not work or live in any of the higher COL cities in Colorado, such as Denver proper or Boulder, but was pulling in a base salary higher than what you're referencing above in my mid-twenties. I went to a public university, work in IT but not as a manager nor software developer, and I have a very good work/life balance.

My point is that my background isn't anything out-of-the-ordinary and I have several peers that have reached the same financial milestones throughout their twenties. I don't live in an exorbitantly expensive city like NYC or SF nor do I have a case of the golden handcuffs. Certain fields simply pay more than others and your rate of acceleration through your career will depend on your industry, employer, open opportunities, finding advocates in your workplace, how quickly and effectively you can develop and evolve your skill sets, etc.

You want to talk stratospheric money, go look at investment bankers salaries. :-)
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Old 04-01-2015, 10:49 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
898 posts, read 987,392 times
Reputation: 1366
Quote:
Originally Posted by randomparent View Post
A: Guilty, and I make no apologies for it, but I completely understand that there is an ugly underbelly to rising housing prices.

B: No, but I'm kicking myself for not buying that condo down the street four years ago.

C: Guilty, and once again I have nothing to apologize for here.

D: No; I am under no illusion that Denver is the perfect place for all. But it is the perfect for my family at the moment.
I still remember paying $1600 for a dingy 2 bedroom in Staten Island NY + $300 a month for bus passes so I can sit in traffic for 1.5 hours each way and fight the hordes of people on my way to work.

I think anchoring plays a real factor here. We all have some intrinsic value of how much things "should" cost. That value is set by our anchor prices - the prices we are used to in our hometown or growing up. That sets our expectations and when reality doesn't meet our expectations we get sorely disappointed.

For me, personally, my anchor price is NYC prices. I won't make apologies for it since I never benefited from living in that cesspool. Coming to Denver, everything seems a bargain to me. I understand if you are coming from the midwest or other cheap COL areas why your vision might be skewed the other way. Again, we never sacrificed financial stability even in NYC but we made a ton of sacrifices (living far from Manhattan, not going out as much, being frugal in other areas) to make it work. I won't apologize for coming here where the COL is more reasonable (by my anchor price) and the poster made it seem like it's a bad thing to be from a coastal city. It's not. It is what it is.

As for point A, to think to that us homeowners have some hidden agenda to continue false advertisements of Denver in order to see our house prices going up (sitting on a pile of gold or some crap like that) means someone is spending too much time online and is becoming paranoid.... We simply live in our homes and enjoy putting money towards our future. It's an investment like any other (not a great investment but an investment nonetheless - you put money into it, it gains/loses value, and you can liquidate it [but it's not a very liquid asset]). I don't hate on those that bought Apple shares when the first iPod came out - I just envy them
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Old 04-01-2015, 12:16 PM
 
Location: Washington Park, Denver
6,904 posts, read 6,496,831 times
Reputation: 7353
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleur View Post

Let's face it. The only ones who don't take an issue with this expensive COL issue fall into a few different categories.

A) They own homes and are loving the idea that they are sitting on huge investment returns by doing absolutely nothing but sitting on it. I had a buddy gleefully tell me that his house value went up almost $20k a couple months after he bought it and that was with him doing absolutely nothing to the house. Don't let these people fool you into believing what is affordable and what isn't, they are loving that the housing market is off the charts. They are extremely biased in this regard.

B) They have rental properties and love the idea that they are making a killing off them.

C) Come from higher COL areas like the West Coast and the East Coast, so they see Denver as a bargain.

D) They're absolutely infatuated with the city and will tear down anyone who disputes its greatness or critiques it in the least bit.
A) I own my house, but have never looked at it as an investment vehicle. I plan to be here for the next 15-20 years so the whims of the market short term don't really get me excited or bummed out.

B) I do and I do, but I bought them at low leverage points so if the market tanks, I'm not going to lose my ass. I charge slightly below market so I have my pick of tenants. That said, would you leave $3,000 a year on the table simply because some people on the Internet think that rents are too high? I'm not going to.

C) 4th generation Colorado native. 5th generation Colorado resident.

D) I like it here, but it's not perfect. Some of the criticism on this board is fair, some of it lacks perspective. I don't mind pointing out when I think people are wrong or right.

Since you spend a great deal of time on here discussing the COL in Denver, it's clear that you spend a lot of time thinking that you should be able to live in a nicer place for what you make. $70K/ year is decent money, but in the vast majority of the desirable cities in this country it's not going to put you in the hot spots. It's just reality. Im sorry if that seems unfair to you, but it's reality. I suggest moving to a lower COL city as soon as possible. You'll gain some things, but you'll lose others. It may be worth it, it may not. It depends on what you value. One thing that is clear to me is that you don't seem very happy and should figure out how to change that.
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