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Old 04-01-2015, 08:06 AM
 
Location: Denver CO
21,177 posts, read 11,797,310 times
Reputation: 32193

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleur View Post
The schools in Denver or CO? Are you talking about colleges? NONE of the local or state schools here top the top-50 on most nationally recognized lists.

Oh, unless you're talking about party schools. Then go CU and go CSU!!!
Public schools, elementary through high school. Middle class families don't stay in cities where their kids can't get a decent education and cities don't grow and stay vibrant without these families. And if those families aren't in Denver pushing for better schools, then the schools serving low income populations fall further and further behind. And these young urban homesteaders will leave the city when they get married and start a family if there aren't good schools to send their kids to.
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Old 04-01-2015, 08:08 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
898 posts, read 992,673 times
Reputation: 1366
I always thought Denver's (or CO) schools were underfunded and crappy by comparison to other cities (or states). I have no kids, so I could be WAYYYYY off. Can someone show me some stats that either prove or disprove this? I always thought Denver is known as a city where highly educated folks move in to but that have a less than ideal public school system.
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Old 04-01-2015, 08:55 AM
 
922 posts, read 990,193 times
Reputation: 1077
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleur View Post
PPublic transit here is a joke. It costs me $8 round trip to get from my closest light rail to downtown. Where as I can go anywhere in the city of Chicago on their train system and it only costs $4 round trip. Chicago is a world class city. Denver is not...yet. There's no excuse for this outrageous pricing scheme.
Sure there is, it's a zone based system that covers far more of a geographic area than Chicago's. If you want a cheaper option, take 'da bus. However, the fare system is being overhauled to either a time-based or pay per boarding and the train will end up costing you about $5 round-trip to anywhere except the airport. Local bus will be the same fare. The call for increasing local transit connections within Denver has merit. I do think that it would benefit Denver to fund enhanced bus service within the City similar to what Boulder does with some of it's routes. Such a funding stream could see high-frequency (5 min headways) on routes along Broadway, Colfax, Colorado, Alameda, Speer, etc.

The rest of the article was mostly crap. Instituting rent controls to support the lower middle class? Prohibiting out of state developers? Leave it to a creative writing major to think that further restricting supply is a way to decrease costs. If anything, we should be lifting all parking requirements and the zoning areas of stability. Houses in Capitol Hill should be being bulldozed left and right to make way for multi-story apartments with no-parking. The development process shouldn't have the ability for public comment and all lawsuits against development should be thrown out. If we want additional moderately priced housing in the City, we need to remove all barriers to development. In the last three years over 7,000 units have been added or are U/C in downtown Denver, with another 6,000 or so in the proposal pipeline, but this is barely enough. Denver's population growth during that same time has been by an additional 60,000 people. Sure, a lot of those people didn't move DT, but the building permit patterns are the same elsewhere in the City. There's simply not enough housing being built for all of the people coming to Denver to keep residential prices from drastically increasing.
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Old 04-01-2015, 09:00 AM
 
Location: In The Thin Air
12,287 posts, read 8,094,328 times
Reputation: 8923
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleur View Post
Personally, I thought it was a very insightful piece.

I know that nobody particularly wants to subscribe to my views that Denver is becoming vastly overpriced. But here it goes anyway...

One of the key points is affordable housing. This is almost non-existent here, regardless of which part of the metro area you live in. You can live 30 miles outside of the city core (Parker) and still end up paying an outrageous amount for an apartment. I'm sorry, my lavish West and East Coast counterparts, but $1200/mo for an outdated 1-BR is not affordable in this city. There are a lot of working class folks who don't make that much money and are struggling to stay ahead of the curve, build savings, and try to save for down payments, future investments, or educational pursuits. Denver is quickly becoming a metro area strictly for the affluent, or for those who don't make much money, but got in at the right time. Working class neighborhoods (Wash Park, Baker, Cap Hill, etc.) are being torn down in favor of the mega rich. Without the help of federal subsidies, working class people should be able to find an abundance of apartments that are less than $900/mo. But the entire metro has become composed of 1-BR apartments, new and old, that are hovering near the $1500/mo range. That is truly disgusting.

Public transit here is a joke. It costs me $8 round trip to get from my closest light rail to downtown. Where as I can go anywhere in the city of Chicago on their train system and it only costs $4 round trip. Chicago is a world class city. Denver is not...yet. There's no excuse for this outrageous pricing scheme.

BTW, this was an exceptionally good paragraph in the piece:
It sounds like you aren't long for this city.
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Old 04-01-2015, 09:01 AM
 
2,519 posts, read 3,509,656 times
Reputation: 5081
I thought the article was a load of self serving crap trying to make a point that can't be made so they tried to make things up to fit their argument.

For example:
"The insurgence of outside real estate investors and costly condo developments, and luxury apartments in the near-Downtown neighborhoods are killing Denver. "
This is a stupid statement. They outside real estate investors and costly condo developments, and luxury apartments all saved Denver. Did the author ever go to downtown Denver before these came? When it was just a bunch of broken down buildings with no tenants, crumbling away. This area is now LoDo and the Union Station area which were just a blight before. Did the author go to the near downtown residential neighborhoods which were also crumbling away? House values next to nothing.

"The Near-Downtown neighborhoods, once gritty and creative, loaded with passion to make our city an artistic and musical mecca are choking out their young, in favor of high-priced developments and suburb-employed commuters. "
Nonsense. Denver did not have gritty and creative neighborhoods with an artistic and musical mecca in the making. These are coming as the areas gentrify. Before they were just undesirable hoods where poor people struggled to get by while living amongst crime and dilapidated housing.

"Imagine the great cities of the world. New York, London, Paris, Amsterdam… What do these cities have in common? What makes them great? Public transportation. Density and diversity. A respect and passion for creativity and the arts. Walkable neighborhoods packed with characters, local stores and local venues."
This is exactly where Denver is heading with the influx of new desirable housing in the older areas.

"These cities have remained prominent and lively for centuries. During that time, Detroit, Atlanta, and many more have come and gone and only barely begun to come again. Those cities where built around cars. Around commuters and surges of investor capital."
Detroit went down hill because it's industry left. I don't know enough about Atlanta to comment. The author just seems confused trying to compare Denver's development with some of the oldest cities in the world when we are so new.

"Boomtowns come and go. They only thrive for as long as wealthy folks fund them, but make no mistake: they will take their money and run when the next boomtown comes along. Great cities are built on the love and community of their people. Great cities are built on lifelong residents, artists, local businesses and local culture. Great cities embrace the parts of them that aren’t polished, understanding that all that glitters is not gold. "
Someone really misses their 6th grade creative writing class. Great cities are build on a strong economy that is diverse enough to weather the changes in technology and society. Boomtowns are based on single economic or limited economic activity. Denver needs to strive to have a diverse economy and we are doing well there. Should we get a great economic driver like Microsoft, Apple, Google etc out of the technically talented people moving here then we will really boom. Right now we have become desirable because of the influx of employable people who support things like the arts, music, dining venues, sports venues etc. We have grown in the ways that people with money want to live. As far as embracing the unpolished parts Denver has done a great job of this. They have step by step set about revitalizing the undesirable areas of the city until there are almost none left.

"it will not succeed through attracting big businesses, building luxury apartments, and catering to johnnies-come-lately"
Another absurd statement by the author. Of course we will succeed by attracting big business (people need to have some place to work if they are to thrive), building luxury apartments (nobody wants to live in a run down, never improved '70s place) and catering to new residents (music, arts, activities, sports etc are in the best interest of all of us, both old and new). The only way to fail is to not do these thing.

Last edited by mic111; 04-01-2015 at 10:01 AM..
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Old 04-01-2015, 09:10 AM
 
Location: The analog world
17,086 posts, read 9,873,330 times
Reputation: 22744
With all this talk of Chicago's supremacy, I'm reminded of a recent thread about the most frequently seen out-of-state license plates. Funny that Illinois was at the top of the list.
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Old 04-01-2015, 09:32 AM
 
Location: The analog world
17,086 posts, read 9,873,330 times
Reputation: 22744
Quote:
Originally Posted by ayoitzrimz View Post
I always thought Denver's (or CO) schools were underfunded and crappy by comparison to other cities (or states). I have no kids, so I could be WAYYYYY off. Can someone show me some stats that either prove or disprove this? I always thought Denver is known as a city where highly educated folks move in to but that have a less than ideal public school system.
Two of my kids attended a couple of years of elementary school in a very highly-ranked east coast district. When we relocated to Colorado, our first experience with public schools was disappointing. We moved shortly thereafter to another public district that was easily on par with the exceptional district our first two kids attended. I think it varies.
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Old 04-01-2015, 01:28 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
2,391 posts, read 1,807,747 times
Reputation: 1920
Quote:
Originally Posted by ayoitzrimz View Post
I always thought Denver's (or CO) schools were underfunded and crappy by comparison to other cities (or states). I have no kids, so I could be WAYYYYY off. Can someone show me some stats that either prove or disprove this? I always thought Denver is known as a city where highly educated folks move in to but that have a less than ideal public school system.
I hear a lot of good things about Cherry Creek Schools from the locals, but most I talk to don't speak highly of DPS and some of the surrounding school districts. I don't have any kids either though. My GF teaches in Douglas County and she say's it's nothing spectacular. Just a bunch of rich kids with a lot of psychological issues.
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Old 04-01-2015, 01:30 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
2,391 posts, read 1,807,747 times
Reputation: 1920
Quote:
Originally Posted by wong21fr View Post
Sure there is, it's a zone based system that covers far more of a geographic area than Chicago's. If you want a cheaper option, take 'da bus. However, the fare system is being overhauled to either a time-based or pay per boarding and the train will end up costing you about $5 round-trip to anywhere except the airport. Local bus will be the same fare. The call for increasing local transit connections within Denver has merit. I do think that it would benefit Denver to fund enhanced bus service within the City similar to what Boulder does with some of it's routes. Such a funding stream could see high-frequency (5 min headways) on routes along Broadway, Colfax, Colorado, Alameda, Speer, etc.

The rest of the article was mostly crap. Instituting rent controls to support the lower middle class? Prohibiting out of state developers? Leave it to a creative writing major to think that further restricting supply is a way to decrease costs. If anything, we should be lifting all parking requirements and the zoning areas of stability. Houses in Capitol Hill should be being bulldozed left and right to make way for multi-story apartments with no-parking. The development process shouldn't have the ability for public comment and all lawsuits against development should be thrown out. If we want additional moderately priced housing in the City, we need to remove all barriers to development. In the last three years over 7,000 units have been added or are U/C in downtown Denver, with another 6,000 or so in the proposal pipeline, but this is barely enough. Denver's population growth during that same time has been by an additional 60,000 people. Sure, a lot of those people didn't move DT, but the building permit patterns are the same elsewhere in the City. There's simply not enough housing being built for all of the people coming to Denver to keep residential prices from drastically increasing.
Yeah, I don't agree with rent controls or anything prohibiting development. In fact, I think there needs to be more development, as you suggested, to ease up the imbalance between supply and demand. I would also embrace the idea of the $5 round trip anywhere idea. That's about what it costs in most other major cities.
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Old 04-01-2015, 01:34 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
2,391 posts, read 1,807,747 times
Reputation: 1920
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyDog77 View Post
Taking the train in from one of the Chicago suburbs to the city is about $6. I just rode from Deerfield to Union Station a few weeks ago and that is what it cost.
I guess the important question here is how far out in the 'burbs were you? $6 might still be a bargain. Southmoor Station (still in Denver) to Union Stations is $8 round trip.
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