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Old 04-01-2015, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
2,391 posts, read 1,807,747 times
Reputation: 1920

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmyy View Post
It sounds like you aren't long for this city.
The median household income in Denver is about $62,000. That doesn't account for individual salaries, which is probably closer to half of that. That's really not a lot of money for this metropolitan.

I know there's a lot of older, relatively wealthy folks who post on this forum in proportion to younger people starting out in life, so I understand how this is difficult to comprehend for many of you because you're at a different point in life. A lot of us younger people are trying to get ahead in life. We're not making our peak salaries (though we might be doing alright), we're possibly not married (no dual incomes), we're trying to pay down student loans, we're trying to establish a nest egg, we're trying to save for a down payment, and we're generally just trying to live life as a typical 20-something. This is difficult to do when the COL keeps increasing each year by 10-20%. I got a 2% raise this year. I mean, c'mon!

In 2008, when I first moved here, Denver was still an affordable city. This was a mere five years ago. I used to live in Cap Hill for anywhere between $525-$600/mo. These were not luxurious places by any means, but it was a neighborhood that was accessible to good transit and to jobs downtown. Most of these sames places that I once lived in a few years ago are going for closer to $1000/mo.

The point is, for us younger people trying to get established, the rapidly increasing COL is eating into our disposable incomes that we would otherwise be using to secure ourselves financially for the future like many of our elders suggest. But how can I continue to pay off student loans in a reasonable amount of time, save a nest egg, contribute to 401k and IRAs and HSAs, save for a mortgage before I'm 40, plan for a family, etc., when I'm expected to spend 40-50% of my net income (the money I see) towards increasing rents?

I fell in love with this city in 2008, because I thought it was reasonably priced and had some good things going for it. Now it seems to be transitioning into just about every other trendy, overpriced East/West coast metropolitan where you have to make bank in order to get by rather comfortably. I mean, what options do young people have anymore to get ahead when all the places with jobs cost a fortune to live in?

I know a lot of you won't understand this frustration, because you're in a much different, much better off place in life. But this is what a lot of the younger population is dealing with, and I'm seeing it first hand among my friends and peers.
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Old 04-01-2015, 01:58 PM
 
Location: Washington Park, Denver
6,951 posts, read 6,563,224 times
Reputation: 7449
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleur View Post
I guess the important question here is how far out in the 'burbs were you? $6 might still be a bargain. Southmoor Station (still in Denver) to Union Stations is $8 round trip.
Same mileage that Parker is to Denver. $6 was one way.
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Old 04-01-2015, 02:02 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
2,391 posts, read 1,807,747 times
Reputation: 1920
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyDog77 View Post
Same mileage that Parker is to Denver. $6 was one way.
That's not bad at all. I hope what another poster was saying is true and that it becomes a flat $5 round trip to anywhere around the city. I think that will be more practical for many people. Like I said before, it costs me less to drive downtown and park on the weekends ($3 plus 15 miles in gas) than it does to take light rail.
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Old 04-01-2015, 02:26 PM
 
922 posts, read 990,193 times
Reputation: 1077
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleur View Post
That's not bad at all. I hope what another poster was saying is true and that it becomes a flat $5 round trip to anywhere around the city. I think that will be more practical for many people. Like I said before, it costs me less to drive downtown and park on the weekends ($3 plus 15 miles in gas) than it does to take light rail.
Plus parking needs to be higher DT, which will happen as the surface lots keep on getting gobbled up.

$3 to park DT in any place other than a burnt-out Midwest city is ridiculous. Oh, and the South.
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Old 04-01-2015, 11:57 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
1,627 posts, read 3,719,835 times
Reputation: 1778
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleur View Post
Personally, I thought it was a very insightful piece.

I know that nobody particularly wants to subscribe to my views that Denver is becoming vastly overpriced. But here it goes anyway...

One of the key points is affordable housing. This is almost non-existent here, regardless of which part of the metro area you live in. You can live 30 miles outside of the city core (Parker) and still end up paying an outrageous amount for an apartment. I'm sorry, my lavish West and East Coast counterparts, but $1200/mo for an outdated 1-BR is not affordable in this city. There are a lot of working class folks who don't make that much money and are struggling to stay ahead of the curve, build savings, and try to save for down payments, future investments, or educational pursuits. Denver is quickly becoming a metro area strictly for the affluent, or for those who don't make much money, but got in at the right time. Working class neighborhoods (Wash Park, Baker, Cap Hill, etc.) are being torn down in favor of the mega rich. Without the help of federal subsidies, working class people should be able to find an abundance of apartments that are less than $900/mo. But the entire metro has become composed of 1-BR apartments, new and old, that are hovering near the $1500/mo range. That is truly disgusting.

Public transit here is a joke. It costs me $8 round trip to get from my closest light rail to downtown. Where as I can go anywhere in the city of Chicago on their train system and it only costs $4 round trip. Chicago is a world class city. Denver is not...yet. There's no excuse for this outrageous pricing scheme.

BTW, this was an exceptionally good paragraph in the piece:
1) Public transit here is a joke? Some articles suggest otherwise. Not like we're good at connecting commuters to jobs or anything.

Seriously...it's not like we've managed to cobble together a legitimate REGIONAL transportation agency that continues work on connecting Denver in EIGHT DIRECTIONS. Two free downtown shuttles, a rapidly expanding transportation hub, an economic incentive to connect downtown and the airport...RTD is far from perfect (Boulder residents have a legitimate gripe right now), but they are the envy of many other American cities.

In addition, we have bike routes, lanes and paths in a variety of contexts (dedicated and otherwise), a rapidly growing bike "share" program (B-Cycle), multiple car "share" services, pedestrian access to a small but vibrant downtown...

2) The article is completely mistaken. We've built and improved numerous parks in this city, have sports teams in every major sport (and several "minor" ones), a campus of multiple colleges in a central location, a transit system that converges on a central location, have neighborhoods that are slowly starting to mature in to distinct, unique communities...proud of what they are (my own neighborhood of Villa Park as an example...progress is slow, but it is happening.) We have main streets such as South Pearl, Gaylord, Tennyson, Highland Square and quite a few others. We also have hip spots such as Broadway, Colfax, Lower Downtown, River North...and renewed Downtown areas in Lakewood (Belmar), Englewood (City Center) and Arvada (Old Town).

3) But the most egregious part is the comparison to European cities...cities that we continue to try and emulate...but that are also VASTLY more expensive than Denver (has the author ever tried to live in London or Paris? London gives New York a run for it's money and Paris is the second most expensive city in the world. Meanwhile, we are experiencing a massive inventory shortage when it comes to housing and apartments...less supply and more demand equal higher prices. Doesn't mean it's right, but real estate in desireable areas of town (of which there are a lot) is getting sparse. The next step is growing up, but that costs money, so many of the highrises going up are appealing to higher income prospective residents to recoup their costs.

I have a TREMENDOUS amount of sympathy for working class people, and yes, it IS getting more and more expensive to live here...but this notion that we are not making progress is juvenile. It may not be coming fast enough for everyone, but I can name quite a few cities that I've lived in that don't hold a candle to the kind of progress being made in Denver today.

There's a lot to work on here, but let's not get distracted by ill informed whining and pie in the sky wishes (rail transit to Cherry Creek and Congress Park? YOU CAN BIKE DOWNTOWN FASTER...and where does the money come from? and how do the people that live in these neighborhoods feel about this?)...when we could do what Denverites do well...get together and actually make our city a better a place.
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Old 04-02-2015, 12:04 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
1,627 posts, read 3,719,835 times
Reputation: 1778
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyDog77 View Post
Taking the train in from one of the Chicago suburbs to the city is about $6. I just rode from Deerfield to Union Station a few weeks ago and that is what it cost.

Dave's comment regarding schools was that all this article did was complain about cost of living, and said that cheaper housing was the backbone of a great city. He doesn't address making schools better or any of the other things that most people would agree make a city great.

While he may have some points on cost of living, the idea that an expensive city isn't a great city seems to be proven wrong by his list of what he considers great cities. New York and Paris are his examples of what we should strive for, yet are two of the most expensive cities in the world. I wonder how he missed the irony.
Bingo.

Furthermore, the REASON we are becoming an expensive city is not because we are gradually fading, but because WE HAVE A DESIRABLE PLACE TO LIVE. That's WHY people move to London, Paris, New York...and that's WHY they are expensive. 1) Limited living space. 2) Exceptional (and costly) amenities.

Not saying it's just. Not saying it can't be fixed. Just saying there are productive ways of looking at things, and then there is whining for a lost golden age that never really existed (did Denver have 2015's benefits back when the OP was living in a $600 Cap Hill apartment? Or have we added even more things since then?)
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Old 04-02-2015, 07:08 AM
 
242 posts, read 288,560 times
Reputation: 531
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lafleur View Post

I know there's a lot of older, relatively wealthy folks who post on this forum in proportion to younger people starting out in life, so I understand how this is difficult to comprehend for many of you because you're at a different point in life. A lot of us younger people are trying to get ahead in life.

>snip<

I know a lot of you won't understand this frustration, because you're in a much different, much better off place in life. But this is what a lot of the younger population is dealing with, and I'm seeing it first hand among my friends and peers.
These types of rants/responses always amaze me. "difficult to comprehend"? "won't understand this frustration"? Like those who went before you didn't have any challenges and it was smooth sailing with no glitches? Oh you poor thing you...it must really suck to be the first to experience such hardships!

I realize it's a different world out there today....but many things are the same...like the higher cost of living in Colorado on the whole. I came from the Midwest...to costs that were easily 3X that of what I was used to....and wages that were 1/2 less...

but nobody FORCED us to come...or to stay.....and nobody gave a fook if we made it...or how much we were paying in rent. It was tough....whether you believe it or not....

Now...yes...we are in a better place....like you will also be AFTER YOU PUT IN 35 YEARS of work/saving the few cents you can so you can raise a few kids and send them to college, buy a house, and build a retirement fund. At 25 ...I had NONE of these things and I was making $6 a fookin hour...at THREE different jobs. To save ANYTHING I had to work 12-15 hours a day EVERYDAY....as did my wife as well.

But it was easy...you know...cus in the end they just handed everything to us....

yeah...that's the ticket...

I honestly hope you can make it all jive...and you WILL....IF you stop blaming all of us for your shortcomings and put your head down for about the next 35 years or so. (it's easy...remember?)
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Old 04-02-2015, 08:13 AM
 
Location: In The Thin Air
12,287 posts, read 8,094,328 times
Reputation: 8923
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbow Demon View Post
These types of rants/responses always amaze me. "difficult to comprehend"? "won't understand this frustration"? Like those who went before you didn't have any challenges and it was smooth sailing with no glitches? Oh you poor thing you...it must really suck to be the first to experience such hardships!

I realize it's a different world out there today....but many things are the same...like the higher cost of living in Colorado on the whole. I came from the Midwest...to costs that were easily 3X that of what I was used to....and wages that were 1/2 less...

but nobody FORCED us to come...or to stay.....and nobody gave a fook if we made it...or how much we were paying in rent. It was tough....whether you believe it or not....

Now...yes...we are in a better place....like you will also be AFTER YOU PUT IN 35 YEARS of work/saving the few cents you can so you can raise a few kids and send them to college, buy a house, and build a retirement fund. At 25 ...I had NONE of these things and I was making $6 a fookin hour...at THREE different jobs. To save ANYTHING I had to work 12-15 hours a day EVERYDAY....as did my wife as well.

But it was easy...you know...cus in the end they just handed everything to us....

yeah...that's the ticket...

I honestly hope you can make it all jive...and you WILL....IF you stop blaming all of us for your shortcomings and put your head down for about the next 35 years or so. (it's easy...remember?)
It is a millennial trait.

By the way at 25 I was broke too and extremely happy.
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Old 04-02-2015, 10:02 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
2,391 posts, read 1,807,747 times
Reputation: 1920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainbow Demon View Post
I honestly hope you can make it all jive...and you WILL....IF you stop blaming all of us for your shortcomings and put your head down for about the next 35 years or so. (it's easy...remember?)
I'm not blaming you or anybody else for my "shortcomings". Point out where I blamed any of you for my predicament. Please, Please, Please do that for me!!!!

All I have done is remarked at the high COL in this area and how it is strainful for younger people starting out. That is it!!!!

I think I make a good salary, at just north of $60k in a given year. It is about three times the national median individual income, $10k more than the national median household income, and I'm guessing a little less than double the median individual income in Denver (which I estimate is probably around $40-$45k/yr). Yet, people here have told me my salary is "light", that paying over $1,000 for a small 1-BR is reasonable. I disagree.
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Old 04-02-2015, 10:04 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
2,391 posts, read 1,807,747 times
Reputation: 1920
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmyy View Post
It is a millennial trait.

By the way at 25 I was broke too and extremely happy.
This is why I can't stand this forum, or the general public at that.

When people don't have anything valid or intelligent to contribute, they make broad hyperbolic generalizations to tear down those who disagree with them. And people slap them on the back and give praise, like they've actually made a good point. I-D-10-T5 error, right? Frickin' Sheeple...

And btw, you couldn't hold a candle to what I've accomplished, on my own, in 29 years. So go kick rocks, homie. I don't need some Internet troll implying that I'm some entitled brat when they know nothing about what I've done to get here.

I came from a poor family of six outside of Detroit and we barely scraped by. I was the first person in my family to go to college, and a very good one at that. When I graduated in 2008, I moved out here, on my own, with no job and no place to live and I made it happen for myself. I went from making jack **** to doubling my salary in just six years. I did this all on my own, with no help from anybody. So don't you ever imply that I'm some entitled brat who is asking for handouts and blaming others for my situation.

Last edited by Lafleur; 04-02-2015 at 10:15 AM..
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