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Old 04-29-2015, 12:12 PM
 
Location: The analog world
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Interesting case study. Thanks for sharing.
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Old 04-29-2015, 03:05 PM
 
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Are these mostly big investors that are paying over asking price for these homes? It would be hard for regular people to compete and purchase a home since they are limited by their mortgage and appraisal.
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Old 04-29-2015, 03:15 PM
 
Location: The analog world
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I don't think so. Houses in my neighborhood are selling in a similar range and even higher, and I'm not seeing investors. They're double-income professional families. I feel like I'm back in Northern California in the early aughts. But my impression may be wrong. Maybe a real estate agent can chime in here.
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Old 04-29-2015, 03:41 PM
 
Location: Denver CO
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These are very valid prices for the area, and I don't think there will be any issue with appraisals coming in below sales price.

I don't believe this was an accurate valuation but in November, my new construction paired home appraised for 10% more than I paid and prices in the area have only gone up since then.
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Old 05-09-2015, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Denver CO
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3410 Valentia apparently fell out of escrow, it's back as an active listing.

And this is an interesting addition to the case study.

10943 E 28th Place, Denver, CO | MLS 5758578 | Listing Information

It's a different floor plan, significantly smaller without the extended upstairs so only 2 bedrooms plus loft. I think they are being unrealistic with the pricing. They seem to be valuing the unfinished basement a lot more than I would. I guess it's in my best interest as an owner to hope I'm wrong and they get their price or something close to it! But my place is about 250 sq ft larger plus also has the basement, so would presumably be worth a fair amount more. I am pretty sure that the market would not support 450K and up for my house, which would be a reasonable amount above their listing price for an extra bedroom and an extra ~120 sq feet finished living space on the first floor. Most of the builds of my model actually have an extra room on the first floor as an office or den. I chose to take down the wall and turn it into a dining room and double the size of my living room.
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Old 05-09-2015, 11:50 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emm74 View Post
3410 Valentia apparently fell out of escrow, it's back as an active listing.

And this is an interesting addition to the case study.

10943 E 28th Place, Denver, CO | MLS 5758578 | Listing Information

It's a different floor plan, significantly smaller without the extended upstairs so only 2 bedrooms plus loft. I think they are being unrealistic with the pricing. They seem to be valuing the unfinished basement a lot more than I would. I guess it's in my best interest as an owner to hope I'm wrong and they get their price or something close to it! But my place is about 250 sq ft larger plus also has the basement, so would presumably be worth a fair amount more. I am pretty sure that the market would not support 450K and up for my house, which would be a reasonable amount above their listing price for an extra bedroom and an extra ~120 sq feet finished living space on the first floor. Most of the builds of my model actually have an extra room on the first floor as an office or den. I chose to take down the wall and turn it into a dining room and double the size of my living room.
Interesting. That certainly doesn't seem worth $425k but who knows. It says there are $50k in upgrades, since you are familiar with the builder and model, where are they? Maybe flooring and slightly upgraded cabinetry, but it looks fairly standard, at least from those photos.
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Old 05-09-2015, 12:18 PM
 
Location: Denver CO
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DenverBound41 View Post
Interesting. That certainly doesn't seem worth $425k but who knows. It says there are $50k in upgrades, since you are familiar with the builder and model, where are they? Maybe flooring and slightly upgraded cabinetry, but it looks fairly standard, at least from those photos.
That's a good question and the truth is with KB, the upgrades and options add up very quickly, although I don't necessarily consider everything an "upgrade" just because you pay more than the base price for it.

The cabinets and hardware are an upgrade, stainless appliances - they are including the w/d as the listing says that is going to convey, hardwood floor, nicer sinks - not sure if the faucets are though, I think they may be the standard ones. Granite countertops, presumably upgraded carpet and padding. Didn't see any tile work in the bathrooms - that was several thousand dollars of upgrades for me! Window treatments (ridiculously overpriced no matter what, even more if they did through the builder), "custom" paint which just means you get to pick one color throughout the house with egg shell finish vs. flat builder white.

No upgraded lighting - that's the standard dining room light and I don't see any extra can lights or ceiling lights beyond what came with the base price. Quite a lot was actually standard, I was able to happily cut what I had allocated for extra lighting in half. No ceiling fans. So I doubt they put money into CAT5 or speaker wiring, etc. Doesn't seem like they did much to the side yard from what you can see through the windows (front yard landscape is included in the base price).

Maybe they put in nicer closet systems? They may also be counting things like central air, perhaps a larger water heater, maybe they upgraded the toilets to comfort height, etc. Possibly tile floors in the bathrooms although that's not mentioned.

But yeah, I'd say 50K was pushing it and generously rounding up. And they have a sub association which means a second HOA fee every month, probably $100 or more although it covers snow removal and maintenance of the green space in front of the house. Actually they probably paid a lot premium for that location, which they may be including in their 50K.
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Old 05-09-2015, 12:20 PM
 
Location: Denver CO
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Oh, I just remembered, the basement was a construction option, they are probably including that $12K as well.
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Old 05-09-2015, 12:30 PM
 
245 posts, read 250,779 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by emm74 View Post
That's a good question and the truth is with KB, the upgrades and options add up very quickly, although I don't necessarily consider everything an "upgrade" just because you pay more than the base price for it.

The cabinets and hardware are an upgrade, stainless appliances - they are including the w/d as the listing says that is going to convey, hardwood floor, nicer sinks - not sure if the faucets are though, I think they may be the standard ones. Granite countertops, presumably upgraded carpet and padding. Didn't see any tile work in the bathrooms - that was several thousand dollars of upgrades for me! Window treatments (ridiculously overpriced no matter what, even more if they did through the builder), "custom" paint which just means you get to pick one color throughout the house with egg shell finish vs. flat builder white.

No upgraded lighting - that's the standard dining room light and I don't see any extra can lights or ceiling lights beyond what came with the base price. Quite a lot was actually standard, I was able to happily cut what I had allocated for extra lighting in half. No ceiling fans. So I doubt they put money into CAT5 or speaker wiring, etc. Doesn't seem like they did much to the side yard from what you can see through the windows (front yard landscape is included in the base price).

Maybe they put in nicer closet systems? They may also be counting things like central air, perhaps a larger water heater, maybe they upgraded the toilets to comfort height, etc. Possibly tile floors in the bathrooms although that's not mentioned.

But yeah, I'd say 50K was pushing it and generously rounding up. And they have a sub association which means a second HOA fee every month, probably $100 or more although it covers snow removal and maintenance of the green space in front of the house. Actually they probably paid a lot premium for that location, which they may be including in their 50K.
Thanks, good insight and I imagine you are correct on that lot premium. I'm surprised stainless and granite was an upgrade, those seem standard on most new homes these days.

I ended up deciding against Stapleton(was looking at Wonderland and David Weekley) and have a home under construction in Buffalo Run/Commerce City that is going to end up with the upgrades right at $425k. I can't imagine paying $425k for this vs what I'm getting...but I guess location, location, location.

Last edited by DenverBound41; 05-09-2015 at 12:44 PM..
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Old 05-09-2015, 02:05 PM
 
Location: Denver CO
21,016 posts, read 11,641,475 times
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Standard with KB is laminate counters and white appliances - and no fridge or w/d. You can buy through them, but you can get a lot cheaper elsewhere. I actually got laminate counters and they look really good. I will upgrade to quartz at some point, but I'm very happy with the way they look and preferred to spend that money elsewhere for now because KB didn't have anything I really loved. Plus with granite, you don't get to choose your own slab which doesn't work for me.

The selling point with KB is that you get the most square footage for your money, but then they nickel and dime the options and you pay extra for things that are standard these days with many other builders.

But as for that house being what you get for $425K in Stapleton, I think they are overreaching by quite a lot, esp. given the square footage and fact that it's a 2 bedroom. You can buy a new construction KB house in North Stapleton - single family with 3 bedrooms, put in 50K of your own upgrades and come in lower than 425K. There's not much new construction left for SFH or paired homes in South Stapleton but even resale, they are certainly not worth more than the Valentia Street house I originally posted about. Or does a basement add a lot more extra value than I would give it??

But for 430K, you can get this 3593 Boston Street, Denver, CO | MLS 5489934 | Listing Information Also 2 bedrooms but it's a single family (more value than a paired home and I say that as a paired home owner) and the basement is finished.

Or here's another duplicate of the 2 I started the thread with. No basement but more square footage and a 3rd bedroom for 415K
3432 Valentia Street, Denver, CO | MLS 2468016 | Listing Information
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