Can someone give me the straight poop on Douglas County schools? (Denver: low crime, home search)

[528646]

Some background info...

We moved to Colorado a few years ago and, since we had young children, finding good schools was our #1 priority. The challenge induced by the high property values in CO was finding a place to live that was both affordable AND had good schools (you can find tons of good schools in the Denver metro area, but only a few areas are really affordable for the average Joe).

Well, we landed in Castle Rock because it (seemed) to strongly tick both boxes. High-but-doable housing costs AND Douglas County schools which, on the surface, seemed to be excellent - high test scores, great graduation rates, good teacher/student ratios, etc.

Fast forward a few years from our initial move and we're getting out. There are myriad reasons, not the least of which are/were:

(1) Castle Rock, while a nice enough place (clean, a lot of newish housing, beautiful views & trails, low crime), just never felt like a "fit" to us culturally...
(2) the commute sucks (unless you are lucky enough to work on the extreme south end of the metro)...
(3) while we're by no means rich, the Colorado economy has been very good to us and we're lucky enough to have the means now to consider neighborhoods that would have been no-go's during our initial move

Now that the news that we are moving is starting to spread, I'm shocked at how many people instantly comment on how lucky we are to be getting out of the Douglas County School District (DCSD). We were aware of problems - the teachers & admin seem to be constantly at odds with one another and the ill-advised (and taxpayer funded!) move to challenge the establishment clause by allowing residents to exchange their tax dollars for "Jesus Bucks" (i.e. charter vouchers), but to hear all of these comments is quite an eye opener!

This isn't necessarily politics (or, at least, I don't MEAN it to be about politics! ) - I myself used to consider myself a die hard liberal, but as I've gotten older and more freethinking, I've adjusted my self image more to something I would describe as "pro-science, pro-data; anti-theocracy"...I'll not lie, that brings me into conflict more often with Republicans than it does with Democrats, but I've had plenty of occasions where I would have liked to slap a liberal silly too! I bring up the topic of politics only because I can't for the life of me determine a political line running through this "DCSD sucks" sentiment, which I've heard echoed from people across the political spectrum.

What the heck is going on? All the metrics for the district look great (scores, graduation, scholastic & athletic achievement, etc, etc) yet everyone seems convinced the whole thing is going to hell in a handbasket, and I just can't make the puzzle pieces fit.

As I said, "we're getting out", so *technically* I don't really care...but for my own curiosity, I would to love to hear someone with the straight poop on what is so damn bad!

[eatsDEN]

I think the driver for the comments you've been hearing are the same as those for the folks hearing about how terrible the JeffCo School Board is... but I'm not super close to either school system, so ????

[emm74]

This may help

http://www.city-data.com/forum/denve...ool-board.html

[step33]

My take is that DougCo Schools started the process of "reforming" a school district that didn't need to be reformed. That created much unneeded animosity between the board/administration and teachers.

Similar to what is happening in JeffCo. The changes just weren't aren't needed and the TONE certainly wasn't wanted. People don't like drama - yet they are getting it. And 80% of the population really isn't very political - so having all this politics stuff brought so close to home (schools) makes things very uncomfortable for many people. So the "getting out" to me means going to a place where there is calm and stability.

THAT SAID, on the ground, I know many, many people who are happy with the education their kids are getting in both districts. At the actual school level, 90+% of the teachers have done a good job of not bringing the politics to the class room and they keep showing up to teach our children.

Personally, the teachers/paras/principle I've interacted with are trying very hard to control what THEY can control - and that is instruction in their own rooms. Some teachers with "options" are leaving both districts and long term, that's bad. Good teachers are retiring a little earlier or heading to other places where again - they don't have the drama.

Now to me, one of the big problems with this JeffCo board is all this energy being spent on their unneeded reform agenda, and not enough expended to solve the ACTUAL problems with some underperforming schools, and serious facilities issues. And since these folks have made so many pledges on not raising taxes or incurring debt - they've painted themselves in to a terrible corner on how to solve those issues. Pissing off the teachers also means they can't go to them to get some "help" from them.

Probably the same could be said in DougCo where the energy is all about vouchers and not enough about maintaining a great school district.

For both boards, I'd say they failed in what should be their main goal as members of an already successful school board - "don't screw it up".

But again, on the ground, they are both still good places to raise kids - I wouldn't discourage anyone from sending their kids there. And for many, many of us who come from the places with far WORSE public school systems, these issues are a walk in the park.

[Timmyy]

I think it is going to change for the better come election time. Candidates are starting to emerge for the board to go along with the recent decision by the state supreme court against the voucher program.

[davidv]

Douglas County is losing teachers in droves.

The pay system is advantages for some, but for most, the nearby districts like Cherry Creek and Littleton pay more. Many teachers get jobs in Douglas County, work for a few years and then leave. This turnover is not good for schools or children. Much of the time, the teachers who leave are well-liked, good teachers.

As for achievement, the most accurate indicator of how good a school or a district is is the level of wealth. Douglas County is the wealthiest county in the metro area and one of the wealthiest in the state. By this metric, Douglas County is very average, or underperforming for a district that is wealthy (less than 8% free and reduced lunch).

[brown_dog_us]

Straight poop: The schools and district are fine. The district and school board definitely lean right, and if that isn't for you then don't live there. I live in Boulder where the schools lean to the left and the same applies.

[guyatwork37]

So my kids are probably about 3 and 5 years from really attending DCSD schools and I'm a little worried. Reading through the other linked thread made nervous and now I'm wondering if I should just focus my future home search in the Centennial area or wherever I would need to live to get my kids in to Cherry Creek High School for instance. I imagine this will all be resolved by the time my kids are in school, but this all seems a bit ridiculous from an outsider's perspective.

[Good Red Road]

Originally Posted by brown_dog_us

I live in Boulder where the schools lean to the left and the same applies.

Funny,
I don't recall the Boulder school board shutting down parents at meetings, or that teachers from BSD are leaving at the same rate. Just Saying.

[528646]

Thanks for the feedback, everyone. I checked out that thread emm74 linked (which I had overlooked before) and I think I have a pretty good handle on it now.

The whole scheme seems like it was a little hair-brained and a bit of a reach, but the good thing is the system worked and the board has been put back in its place. Hopefully no long-term damage has been done to the district - I know they've lost a lot of teachers and DCSD has surely lost a lot of goodwill with a significant % of the citizenry, but this looks like it could play out as a "no harm, no foul" kind of situation over the next 5-10 years as things (hopefully) normalize.

The whole thing would actually be kind of funny except that actual taxpayer dollars were expended on this little pipe dream. The good thing is, most of the money wasted sounds like it came from the outside interest groups so the taxpayer burden was kept to a minimum. I really can't imagine the outside groups persisting with this effort - I think, by and large, those groups are searching for low hanging fruit: low-investment (relatively speaking), high payoff type situations. I'm guessing those dollars will start flowing elsewhere to chase some other cause now (hopefully a LONG ways away from both Colorado and our schools!)

I guess I would be lying if I said I don't feel some measure of relief to be getting out, but at the same time, if anyone is reading this and considering a move to Doug Co, I'm not sure I would advise you to be overly concerned or let this stop you. Yes, get educated and be aware of the history of the whole situation so you're well-armed with knowledge should something like this crop up again, but on a day to day basis - from everything that I've seen living here - the schools appear to be clicking along just fine (props to the students/teachers/staff/etc for keeping their eye on the ball & maintaining high performance throughout this little fiasco!)