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Old 09-09-2015, 03:00 PM
 
975 posts, read 1,319,346 times
Reputation: 1211

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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaaBoom View Post
RTD is good at hiding negative things on their web site. Those prices have gone up several times since that was published, and are going up again. Plus I don't think they really want to promote Eco Passes, even if the prices were good. RTD is desperate to shake down their customers, for as much as they can get, to pay for their FasTracks deficit.

EcoPass program for RTD riders to see price hike RTD board to take final vote next week on 18.3 percent price increase for businesses using pass
That shows that the EcoPass prices haven't been raised since 2011. So it will have been five years between price increases for the EcoPass and it will increasing by 18.3%, which is 3.66% per year. In 2011 the YoY change was 12.5%. However, CPI has only increased by 2.1% annually since 2011 and and the transportation subset has increased by 2.88%. So RTD is outpacing the rate of inflation by .78%. Though the pricing is still lower than that of a monthly pass at $45/mo (on the high end).
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Old 09-10-2015, 07:23 AM
 
92 posts, read 97,826 times
Reputation: 164
I honestly don't even see anything on RTD about how to obtain an EcoPass or what the costs are besides a $2.50 upcharge for skyride. Weird.
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Old 09-10-2015, 07:27 AM
 
Location: Edgewater, CO
531 posts, read 1,141,326 times
Reputation: 643
Quote:
Originally Posted by hawkbill View Post
I honestly don't even see anything on RTD about how to obtain an EcoPass or what the costs are besides a $2.50 upcharge for skyride. Weird.
EcoPass is a program for employers to provide passes to employees. It's up to your company to call RTD and work out the details. If you're an employer, this page provides the details.

At my current employer, our HR lady took my photo and gave me my EcoPass the next day. My previous employer had the old EcoPasses and I had to walk down to RTD's office at Market St where they took my photo and printed my pass there.
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Old 09-10-2015, 09:23 AM
 
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
7,138 posts, read 10,982,481 times
Reputation: 7808
Quote:
Originally Posted by wong21fr View Post
That shows that the EcoPass prices haven't been raised since 2011. So it will have been five years between price increases for the EcoPass and it will increasing by 18.3%, which is 3.66% per year. In 2011 the YoY change was 12.5%. However, CPI has only increased by 2.1% annually since 2011 and and the transportation subset has increased by 2.88%. So RTD is outpacing the rate of inflation by .78%. Though the pricing is still lower than that of a monthly pass at $45/mo (on the high end).
The real problem is that fair increases always result in decreased ridership. Some percentage of companies are just going to say to hell with it, 18% is too much and get out of the program. Other companies will pass the increased price on to their employees. Either way it's going to make using public transit less desirable in Denver. For a transit system that has had stagnate ridership for the last seven years, despite opening these billion dollar rail lines, it's hard to see a positive outcome for this.
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Old 09-10-2015, 10:16 AM
 
2,401 posts, read 3,244,327 times
Reputation: 1837
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaaBoom View Post
The real problem is that fair increases always result in decreased ridership. Some percentage of companies are just going to say to hell with it, 18% is too much and get out of the program. Other companies will pass the increased price on to their employees. Either way it's going to make using public transit less desirable in Denver. For a transit system that has had stagnate ridership for the last seven years, despite opening these billion dollar rail lines, it's hard to see a positive outcome for this.
Let the traffic congestion get worse for a year or two. People will come to appreciating public transportation more.
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Old 09-10-2015, 11:11 AM
 
975 posts, read 1,319,346 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by KaaBoom View Post
The real problem is that fair increases always result in decreased ridership. Some percentage of companies are just going to say to hell with it, 18% is too much and get out of the program. Other companies will pass the increased price on to their employees. Either way it's going to make using public transit less desirable in Denver. For a transit system that has had stagnate ridership for the last seven years, despite opening these billion dollar rail lines, it's hard to see a positive outcome for this.
It's a trade-off: increased farebox revenues versus from higher fares offsetting the decrease in overall ridership. RTD is banking on the five new lines opening in 2016 adding enough riders to offset the one's who will drop off due to increased cost. Arguably the new fare structure is more beneficial to the commuters who use the system versus those who rely on the system for everything-the rail lines will end up being cheaper due to the elimination of the zone system and those using 'da bus for local travel will be paying quite a bit higher. RTD is first and foremost a commuter system and this new fare structure reflects that. We'll see if local governments like Denver continue to think that RTD is the best organization to also fulfill local service as well or if another level of transit service is needed.

Though ridership hasn't been stagnant over the last seven years. In 2007, the average system-wide weekday ridership was 285,600. In 2014, it was 342,800. It's increased by 20% over the last seven years. Modeshare might be stagnant when accounting for population growth. Is that what you meant?

Last edited by wong21fr; 09-10-2015 at 11:59 AM..
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Old 09-10-2015, 12:39 PM
 
Location: Coos Bay, Oregon
7,138 posts, read 10,982,481 times
Reputation: 7808
Quote:
Originally Posted by wong21fr View Post
It's a trade-off: increased farebox revenues versus from higher fares offsetting the decrease in overall ridership. RTD is banking on the five new lines opening in 2016 adding enough riders to offset the one's who will drop off due to increased cost. Arguably the new fare structure is more beneficial to the commuters who use the system versus those who rely on the system for everything-the rail lines will end up being cheaper due to the elimination of the zone system and those using 'da bus for local travel will be paying quite a bit higher. RTD is first and foremost a commuter system and this new fare structure reflects that. We'll see if local governments like Denver continue to think that RTD is the best organization to also fulfill local service as well or if another level of transit service is needed.

Though ridership hasn't been stagnant over the last seven years. In 2007, the average system-wide weekday ridership was 285,600. In 2014, it was 342,800. It's increased by 20% over the last seven years. Modeshare might be stagnant when accounting for population growth. Is that what you meant?
I'm not sure where you are getting those numbers from, but somebody is playing games with the numbers. RTD's ridership was 104 million in 2008. It was 104.9 million in 2014. The W Line was a total disaster for RTD, because it was slower then the buses it replaced. So any new riders that it attracted was offset by the riders they lost due to slow service.

In 2000 before FasTracks, the ridership was 78 million. So all the billions of dollars they have spent on light rail, resulted in only a 34% increase in ridership. They could have taken a fraction of that money and subsidized free bus service and easily doubled ridership.

And I don't know what you are talking about "elimination of the zone system". They are eliminating one zone, which includes express service. Thats just another sneaky way for them to increase fares. Instead of paying an express fare, these riders will now have to pay a regional fare. Thats an increase for riders in places like Aurora.

Last edited by KaaBoom; 09-10-2015 at 01:05 PM..
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Old 09-10-2015, 03:08 PM
 
975 posts, read 1,319,346 times
Reputation: 1211
Quote:
Originally Posted by KaaBoom View Post
I'm not sure where you are getting those numbers from, but somebody is playing games with the numbers. RTD's ridership was 104 million in 2008. It was 104.9 million in 2014. The W Line was a total disaster for RTD, because it was slower then the buses it replaced. So any new riders that it attracted was offset by the riders they lost due to slow service.
Using APTA numbers for ridership which shows that RTD's annual ridership has gone from 82M in 2007 to 105M in 2014. I see you're using NTD numbers for boardings. There might have been some refactoring of the formulas or it's also a result of RTD streamlining it's system to reduce the number of transfers.

As for the W Line, boardings on light rail increased by 3M in 2013 and 3M again in 2014 while bus ridership remained flat. That suggests that there wasn't a terrible decrease in ridership on the bus system when the W Line opened.

Quote:
In 2000 before FasTracks, the ridership was 78 million. So all the billions of dollars they have spent on light rail, resulted in only a 34% increase in ridership. They could have taken a fraction of that money and subsidized free bus service and easily doubled ridership.
They could have, but what's the chance that the suburban commuters who voted for FasTracks would have voted for that? That would be merely paying for a luxury for the welfare queens while getting nothing. Asides, we're still waiting to see what the impact on ridership FasTracks will cause as only the W line is open. 2017 will be the first year to gauge what impact FasTracks will have since the A, B, G, R, and Flatiron Flyer will all have been operating for a year by then.

Quote:
And I don't know what you are talking about "elimination of the zone system". They are eliminating one zone, which includes express service. Thats just another sneaky way for them to increase fares. Instead of paying an express fare, these riders will now have to pay a regional fare. Thats an increase for riders in places like Aurora.
True. RTD's fare were a hit primarily on the local riders and a boon to the commuters using light rail as their trips are now cheaper (or just slightly more expensive). If you're taking the 15 and 16 from Aurora to Golden, you're getting screwed. RTD is a commuter system first and foremost and the pricing now reflects that. Given that, it's probably time for Denver to evaluate if RTD is the best institution to provide intercity transit. Or should Denver provide enhanced service via RTD, akin to Boulder, to improve intercity transit. We'll have to see.
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Old 03-22-2018, 08:27 AM
 
Location: Massachusetts
9,510 posts, read 16,411,541 times
Reputation: 14508
I was reading some threads on Denver's transit system. I was shocked how expensive it is, compared to many other Metros. Granted here in Fla there is little transit, and I miss access to it. I retired down here but lived most of my life, In transit oriented regions. Denver's fares seem very high, and evidently raise them frequently.

The system is bus light rail and a commuter line or two it seems like, The fare structure is way to high for a system where most trains are light rail. I'm sorry but $171 a month for a pass, that increased from $140. That to me is cause for concern for a transit rider. Raising fares for that type of Metro, which obviously will be up to $200 a month for a pass real soon. Is well a real bad sign


Why is this being allowed. I mean were not talking a Chicago,NYC, Boston type transit systems in Denver by no means. At least Denver could make park and ride lots free, so the cost of riding transit didn't seem so high.

I like Denver and I can see the area is all for, increasing transit projects and riders. I'm all for that believe me. However the fare structure is really out of whack. I can only imagine the burden on lower income types, that are forced to pay it. Even if they qualify for a discount, which seems high compared to other systems. I'm sorry I just don't get why residents and govt, have not petitioned to investigate this. Then again maybe they have. Thanks for listening. Please don't crucify me. I like your city a lot, always have.
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Old 03-22-2018, 11:30 AM
 
Location: Albuquerque
1,315 posts, read 2,005,911 times
Reputation: 1644
If you ride more than 22 times a month it's worth it.
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