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Old 12-20-2015, 09:47 PM
 
Location: Washington Park, Denver
6,912 posts, read 6,513,130 times
Reputation: 7365

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzatlarge View Post
That question was asked on Tuesday. On that day, my AWD car with all-season Michelin Defender tires got me easily through a 14 mile commute - each way - on plowed and unplowed roads. In the morning while the snow was still falling and in late afternoon after it had stopped. I didn't much "like" the conditions, but I managed just fine.

Congrats on having a fabulous 3 mile drive that day.

I'm all for everyone who manages to not get stuck or slide out of control on our roads in winter conditions. However they do it.
To me there is a big difference between "managing" and feeling in control of my car.
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Old 12-21-2015, 12:00 AM
 
Location: Denver
3,150 posts, read 7,230,897 times
Reputation: 2949
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzatlarge View Post

I'm all for everyone who manages to not get stuck or slide out of control on our roads in winter conditions. However they do it.
It isn't about not getting stuck....or getting stuck....or not sliding out of control....or sliding out of control....

It is about the margin of safety that winter tires give you while driving in winter conditions. The increased margin of safety winter tires give you is why I have them.
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Old 12-21-2015, 07:54 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
330 posts, read 347,093 times
Reputation: 575
Hmm. I'm really not trying to be snarky, despite getting slapped at twice in a row. But it seems to me I'm being lectured unnecessarily here.

I didn't post that I somehow barely "managed" to make a 28 mile round trip commute in my car. As I reported, the car made the trip easily. I didn't gun it, or slam on the brakes. I did maintain a speed consistent with the conditions and most of the traffic, passed some slower vehicles in the other lane, and never once felt the car slipping/sliding while starting from a stop, driving, or braking. The car is a late model Subaru Outback wagon, AWD, well-maintained, fitted with Michelin Defender tires that have just a few thousand miles on them. The tires are rated "all weather" - which in this echo chamber of "winter tires or die" seems to make me a public menace. However, although I haven't gone out on an icy or snowpacked parking lot to test acceleration, braking, and whatever "margin of safety" I might have, the car's winter driving performance with them is much better than it was with the OEM "all weather" tires. I've had a Subaru with Blizzaks, and this car with these tires has performed as well as the other one with the Blizzaks.

When I'm driving in winter conditions, it makes a heckuva lot of difference to me whether another vehicle slides out of control and hits my vehicle, or gets stuck and snarls traffic. I get the concept of "margin of safety." Obviously the vehicles that get stuck or slide have somehow exceeded theirs - but was it the tires or the driver at fault?

I'm going to accept that I was foolish to venture into this discussion, and politely make my way out. Never mind that I've lived in Denver for 35+ years and - despite growing up in a very warm Southern city with no snow - have never lost control or gotten stuck in a vehicle I've driven in Colorado winter conditions. Including those years I had a 56 mile round trip commute to work M-F. I'm sure I've been lucky, but perhaps I've made intelligent decisions about vehicles and tires as well.

Have a great sunny Denver day, everyone!
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Old 12-21-2015, 08:02 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
4,801 posts, read 4,911,570 times
Reputation: 17187
For me, winter tires or not is an easy decision.

If you must drive on icy roads during storms, e.g. you are a nurse and you must make it to work, then you should buy winter tires. My daughter is in that position and I just bought her a new set of Blizzak WS-80s

OTOH, if you can stay home, do that. You don't need winter tires.
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Old 12-21-2015, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Washington Park, Denver
6,912 posts, read 6,513,130 times
Reputation: 7365
Quote:
Originally Posted by Suzatlarge View Post
Hmm. I'm really not trying to be snarky, despite getting slapped at twice in a row. But it seems to me I'm being lectured unnecessarily here.

I didn't post that I somehow barely "managed" to make a 28 mile round trip commute in my car. As I reported, the car made the trip easily. I didn't gun it, or slam on the brakes. I did maintain a speed consistent with the conditions and most of the traffic, passed some slower vehicles in the other lane, and never once felt the car slipping/sliding while starting from a stop, driving, or braking. The car is a late model Subaru Outback wagon, AWD, well-maintained, fitted with Michelin Defender tires that have just a few thousand miles on them. The tires are rated "all weather" - which in this echo chamber of "winter tires or die" seems to make me a public menace. However, although I haven't gone out on an icy or snowpacked parking lot to test acceleration, braking, and whatever "margin of safety" I might have, the car's winter driving performance with them is much better than it was with the OEM "all weather" tires. I've had a Subaru with Blizzaks, and this car with these tires has performed as well as the other one with the Blizzaks.

When I'm driving in winter conditions, it makes a heckuva lot of difference to me whether another vehicle slides out of control and hits my vehicle, or gets stuck and snarls traffic. I get the concept of "margin of safety." Obviously the vehicles that get stuck or slide have somehow exceeded theirs - but was it the tires or the driver at fault?

I'm going to accept that I was foolish to venture into this discussion, and politely make my way out. Never mind that I've lived in Denver for 35+ years and - despite growing up in a very warm Southern city with no snow - have never lost control or gotten stuck in a vehicle I've driven in Colorado winter conditions. Including those years I had a 56 mile round trip commute to work M-F. I'm sure I've been lucky, but perhaps I've made intelligent decisions about vehicles and tires as well.

Have a great sunny Denver day, everyone!

Ha! Sorry, not trying to lecture or say that you were foolish. There are certainly a ton of people driving around the city without winter tires and it is not complete chaos. It just could be a lot better if people appreciated what they were missing.

The point I'm trying to make is that in my experience people who drive without winter tires don't realize how much easier and safer winter driving is with the proper equipment.

On a personal note, I bought a 4Runner with brand new all season tires a while ago and thought "no need for snow tires, these things are really tready" even though I have put winter tires on every other AWD vehicle I've owned. I made it through one storm in the mountains before running over to Discount Tire for a set of dedicated snows. The performance difference was just too big for me to want to deal with.

Yes, you can get by just fine with all seasons. I just don't understand why people want to.
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Old 12-21-2015, 12:57 PM
 
Location: Cole neighborhood, Denver, CO
1,123 posts, read 2,449,183 times
Reputation: 1247
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyDog77 View Post
On a personal note, I bought a 4Runner with brand new all season tires a while ago and thought "no need for snow tires, these things are really tready" even though I have put winter tires on every other AWD vehicle I've owned. I made it through one storm in the mountains before running over to Discount Tire for a set of dedicated snows. The performance difference was just too big for me to want to deal with.

Yes, you can get by just fine with all seasons. I just don't understand why people want to.
Let me guess, the 4Runner came with Bridgestone 'Dueller' tires? It seems like all SUV's are sold with these OEM tires. They're a complete joke in the winter. We bought our 4Runner in November 2012, and drove on them for two weeks before switching over to winter tires. They make a world of difference.

I am with Skydogg with disdain for people who are ignorant about the difference between all-seasons and winter tires. Especially when we know how much of a difference they would make in ski traffic if ALL vehicles had them on! So, my apologies to Suzatlarge, but when I see an accident occur with a vehicle on all-season tires, I can't help but be annoyed.
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Old 12-21-2015, 05:49 PM
 
387 posts, read 271,969 times
Reputation: 697
People who use all-seasons year round but adhere to the following are likely good to go:
1) Purchase "good" all-seasons
2) Maintain sufficient tread depth
3) Have experience driving their vehicle in snow/ice
4) Know the limitations of both vehicle and driver
5) Drive defensively
6) Remain cognizant of the road conditions

Unfortunately doing all of the above is a lot of work, and some people just don't do it. Kudos to those who do.
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Old 12-21-2015, 05:53 PM
 
387 posts, read 271,969 times
Reputation: 697
Quote:
Originally Posted by orangecrush1973 View Post
I like not needing to change my tires in the spring and fall, and have found the WRG3's to have excellent year round performance. I was unable to find any other true all weather tire on the market. I replaced them at 35,000 miles even though they had a ton of tread left; their snow performance wasn't as good as when they were new.
I think this speaks to SkyDog's point. It depends on your situation of course, but for me 35,000 miles lasts about 16 months. Buying WRG3s at that interval is nearly equivalent to buying two sets of tires that together last longer. And are better suited for the conditions at hand.
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Old 12-21-2015, 08:58 PM
 
11 posts, read 12,698 times
Reputation: 28
I've had dedicated winter tires, but I just don't like how they drive on dry pavement (the vast majority of the winter) compared to the Nokians. No tires drive as well at 35,000 miles as when they are new, I choose to replace my tires once I notice a drop in performance. This tire is best for moderate winter storms, you definitely sacrifice a small amount of snow traction compared to dedicated winter tires. However, I have found the small loss in snow traction to be more than offset by gains in handling and braking performance. The Denver area has an interesting climate, and I've found the Nokians are well rounded performers when you may encounter all four seasons during the same day. For severe storms we use our awd highlander. I have never been stuck or lost control in either vehicle, good judgement is by far the best way to prevent winter crashes. The WRG3's are the right tires for my needs, but I certainly respect the opinions of others.
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