Plowing the streets in Denver (Broomfield: transportation, cars, rated)

[nelumbo]

Last night seemed to me to be a case of bad timing, at least in Boulder - very heavy snow falling between 430 and 630 pm. The snow was falling heavily enough to accumulate quickly on the streets at the exact time that the most cars were on the road. I saw several cars lose control while waiting for the bus a little after 5 on Baseline in Boulder. My bus ride only took about 5 minutes, maybe a minute or two longer than usual, but conditions on Baseline apparently degraded quickly to the east of Foothills. I've seen similar gridlock to Wed. night happen before - the plows can't get through when there is a lot of traffic, which makes traffic even worse, and if the snow if heavy enough it is crippling. Although, it didn't appear that Boulder made any kind of effort to bring out plows...

This morning, Baseline was a sheet of ice, and clearly untreated. I'm not sure how much it would have helped if it had been plowed overnight when conditions were still slushy.

This site CoCoRaHS - Community Collaborative Rain, Hail & Snow Network has reports of precipitation across colorado from the previous day. You can change the map to show "new snow" and zoom in on counties to get numeric reports.

[warren main]

Originally Posted by HighlandsGal

I find it very annoying as well. 25 south-bound around the stadium curve was an absolute joke this morning around 6.15.....completely icy and snow covered. I can't believe that there were no plows out, no salt on the road, nothing. What is with Denver???

I am from West Michigan originally and the few inches we got last night is nothing compared to what I am used to. But if this snowfall happened in Grand Rapids the roads would be clear in an hour or two.

I find it seriously annoying.....sometimes I feel like I live in Kentucky or Georgia or something.....why can't they get it together????

Okay, I feel better now after ranting. Thanks!

If it makes you feel any better, after a big snow storm a few years back a bright former mayor got an idea of using trash trucks to pack the snow down instead of trying to remove it.
If you go into Google and type in "Diary of a mad snow shoveler", you can read a pretty funny story of the frustrations involved with snow shoveling.

[NickMan7]

Originally Posted by jazzlover

People love to blame the mess on road maintenance crews, but I think they do a better job now than was the case even a few years ago. The real problem: too many cars, too much traffic, too many people who don't know how to or can't drive in winter conditions. It snows, roads get slick--get over it. If you don't want to drive on snowpacked or icy roads once in a while, move to Florida or California.

Thank you, Jazz! I have a hard time blaming street crews. As far as I am concerned, they do a better job than I could - not to mention I wouldn't want that thankless job! As stated before, when there is seemingly endless traffic on many major roads, plows can't get through. What exactly do people expect them to do? The snow fell so hard in Boulder (and areas around Boulder) that there would've had to be plows on every street corner for two hours to keep the roads clear. When you get 3" of snow in an hour during rush hour, you can't expect miracles.

This storm was a little different in that the roads were extremely icy. Going east on Arapahoe out of Boulder (it's uphill, as are most roads leading out of Boulder) was nothing but shiny, glimmering ice. And traffic wasn't moving. I hardly expected a street crew to wedge their way in when everything for blocks around was at a standstill. Normally the roads are manageable because they have snowpack; this was not the case for many area roads during this storm.

As far as I am concerned, the road crews should be applauded for doing the best they can for so many thankless people. I have unending sympathy for the **** they put up with (not only with the weather, but with the constant criticisms) every time it snows. I guess if there isn't bare pavement all the time, people just won't be happy.

I might also add a note regarding my earlier post about taking 4 hours to get to work (as I can see where people might think I have just contradicted myself) -

Originally Posted by NickMan7

I live in the north part of Denver and this was easily the worst commute I have experienced in many years of commuting to downtown Denver. I left the house at 7:00am on the nose and didn't get to my office chair until 11:00am.

I had to drive into Boulder last night (right around 5:30) and I haven't seen it snow like that since the March '03 blizzard. I was stopped at a light for 30 minutes and had 2" of snow on my car by the time I got through it. Amazing this Colorado weather!

- I am in no way blaming the street crews for the hard work they endure. Bad road conditions and tens of thousands of commuters just add up to a very long commute.

[HighlandsGal]

Originally Posted by NickMan7

Thank you, Jazz! I have a hard time blaming street crews. As far as I am concerned, they do a better job than I could - not to mention I wouldn't want that thankless job! As stated before, when there is seemingly endless traffic on many major roads, plows can't get through. What exactly do people expect them to do? The snow fell so hard in Boulder (and areas around Boulder) that there would've had to be plows on every street corner for two hours to keep the roads clear. When you get 3" of snow in an hour during rush hour, you can't expect miracles.

This storm was a little different in that the roads were extremely icy. Going east on Arapahoe out of Boulder (it's uphill, as are most roads leading out of Boulder) was nothing but shiny, glimmering ice. And traffic wasn't moving. I hardly expected a street crew to wedge their way in when everything for blocks around was at a standstill. Normally the roads are manageable because they have snowpack; this was not the case for many area roads during this storm.

As far as I am concerned, the road crews should be applauded for doing the best they can for so many thankless people. I have unending sympathy for the **** they put up with (not only with the weather, but with the constant criticisms) every time it snows. I guess if there isn't bare pavement all the time, people just won't be happy.

I might also add a note regarding my earlier post about taking 4 hours to get to work (as I can see where people might think I have just contradicted myself) -



- I am in no way blaming the street crews for the hard work they endure. Bad road conditions and tens of thousands of commuters just add up to a very long commute.

Well, when it stopped snowing in North Denver by 9pm and the roads were still a mess at 6 am there is no excuse. There is not traffic in the middle of the night. Ever hear of salt, sand, plows????

[NickMan7]

Originally Posted by HighlandsGal

Well, when it stopped snowing in North Denver by 9pm and the roads were still a mess at 6 am there is no excuse. There is not traffic in the middle of the night. Ever hear of salt, sand, plows????

I guess my question is do you honestly think the plow drivers and road crews just leave the roads as they are and do absolutely nothing? Why on earth would they choose to just say "eh, I'm not gonna go plow tonight. I think I'll just stay home and scratch my ***"? Like the rest of us, they have a job and go to work to make a paycheck so they can feed their family or whatever it is they do with their paychecks.

What they should do is just leave the roads as they are the next time it snows. And every time after that, for that matter. Without them the roads wouldn't be HALF as clear as they are.

[HighlandsGal]

I honestly don't think they did a THING yesterday morning, at least in parts of Denver. I drive to Castle Rock every morning from 20th Street and I-25. It was AWFUL between Speer and 6th Ave on 25 South. The whole way to work I did not see a single plow -- just a bunch of tow trucks and cop cars helping people out. The roads were better by the Tech Center, but then again they didn't get the snow that North Denver did.

Some of you need to spend time in places with more wintry climates to see how it should be done

[torrential]

It took me a nerve wracking hour just to get to 36 via 287 yesterday morning at 9:00 and another hour to Denver and it wasn't because of bad driving. Everybody was slipping and sliding along at 2 to 8 MPH because the road conditions warranted that kind of caution. Thousands of cars and trucks were being operated perfectly well by their drivers, among them Colorado natives, long time residents, and recent emigrees alike, with and without snow tires and in high quality and low quality vehicles. I was actually surprised at how few disabled or abandoned vehicles I saw, just two in the whole journey and those were real wheel drive cars (a BMW and a Firebird) that were stuck, probably last night, on the hill near Broomfield.

It's not the weather (it happens), it's not the drivers (see above), it's not the road crews (they're following the plans given to them by their management). The area has changed and blaming Wednesday and Thursday's traffic on "you people..." is neither kind nor productive. It comes down to this, and we all know it: The roads were not designed to handle the number of people now living here. There are large numbers of houses on roads where until recently there were only a few farms and this trend shows no signs of abating. The urban planners have not caught up with these changes and the pervasive attitude of denial makes it unpopular for them to do so.

What if you had needed emergency services yesterday morning? On icy Arapahoe or Baseline, for example, an ambulance or fire engine could not have completed their journey in time to help, stuck behind hundreds of cars driven by people like us all doing the right thing but with nowhere to go. It would be too late by then but who could you blame except the municipalities for falling behind the curve in defining and addressing this gap in the services they are expected to provide.

It's a real problem that will only get worse. Like it or not, money will have to be spent. It's just one of the costs of living in a growing metro area.

[tfox]

Denver, of course, is well known for relying on "solar" snow removal for neighborhood streets. As annoying as that may be for the local residents, it's not the main problems of the massive slowdowns we saw this week.

The responsibility for the highways like I-25, I-70, US-36, as well as major arterials like US 286, US 85, etc belongs with CDOT, not the city. CDOT does their best, but they are woefully underfunded, and falling behind on everything from new projects to maintenance. CDOT spends most of their budget repairing crumbling infrastructure that has already passed its designed life.

There is a proposal floating around right now to add $100.00 per car to registration fees in order to fund transportation, but early indicators are that it's not likely to pass muster. That's supposed to raise a relatively modest $500 million a year for road maintenance, which will help, but won't be a world-changer when it comes to tranportation. The gas tax, our old mainstay, has been falling every year in inflation adjusted terms even as construction costs rise at double digit rates every year. Ref D, our transportation fix, failed at the polls last election. Transportation needs a fix, and the voters so far haven't been able to agree to one yet.

[dynimagelv]

Why plow....it'll melt

[Katarina Witt]

It's not the highway crews per se; they are just following orders. But puboic safety is an issue, as torrential brought up. Someone will die because of some mess like this, and then things will change. This has been going on a long time, too. I remember back 25 yrs ago getting stuck in a gridlock like that in Boulder.