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View Poll Results: Are toll roads a failure in Colorado?
Yes 18 56.25%
No 14 43.75%
Voters: 32. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-26-2016, 10:37 AM
 
922 posts, read 989,710 times
Reputation: 1077

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Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyDog77 View Post
I drove home from the mountains on Saturday. The toll was $4 and traffic was light.

The third lane has definitely taken some strain off the commute home. It actually puts CDOT in an interesting position because they have been saying that more lanes on I-70 wouldn't really help and the data is showing otherwise.

I would prefer that we paid for this stuff out of general tax dollars, but TABOR is a major issue when it comes to funding projects like this so the state's hand has been forced to adopt a use fee based system. Libertarians should love it.
They've been saying that more general purpose lanes wouldn't help, not managed lanes- there's a big difference between a tolled land and a free lane in terms of managing traffic.
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Old 01-26-2016, 10:40 AM
 
922 posts, read 989,710 times
Reputation: 1077
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hschlick84 View Post
CDOT should just sabotage the tolls all together and just announce 'no more tolls in Colorado' all roads are accessible for free. Not going to happen, but would be great to dream about it.
How socialist of of you. Who's going to pay for adding new capacity when all of the lanes are free? Let alone pay to maintain the existing roads.

Which is the problem that the State GOP has with it's cute proposal to use CDOT maintenance funds as the revenue stream for a bond issue- you're cutting maintenance on existing roads to pay for new roads that would then have to be maintained with no money.

The GOP has lost all semblance of being fiscally responsible because of their blood oath to TABOR and no new taxes.
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Old 01-26-2016, 11:05 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
4,840 posts, read 4,956,944 times
Reputation: 17309
I only take E-470 to/from DIA when I'm willing to pay $12 to avoid the congestion of I-225. The fact that it's expensive means the road is rarely crowded.

But I'll admit I usually take the cheap route and just hope for not too much traffic.
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Old 01-26-2016, 11:18 AM
 
Location: Aurora, CO
6,561 posts, read 10,274,001 times
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Yes and no.

If you believe everything (including public infrastructure) should be privatized and sold to the highest bidder and you should be able to buy your way out of the things that inconvenience the peons then no, they haven't been a failure.

From a good governance perspective? They're absolutely a failure. Taxes have become a third rail in this country. The Grover Norquists of the world have convinced more than enough people that any and all taxes are bad and as a result neither party will go there.

The gas tax hasn't been raised at the state or the federal level in almost 25 years - 1993 to be exact. The buying power of the gas tax has been eroded by increases in fuel efficiency standards, and states have been further diluting their revenue streams by spending gas tax monies on non-highway construction projects like bike paths.

Bottom line - tollways and "managed lanes" will continue to be the preferred method of highway expansion until someone has the stones to do what's right instead of doing what will get them re-elected.
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Old 01-26-2016, 12:07 PM
 
930 posts, read 537,775 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TCHP View Post
Sorry, thanks for pointing that out. If I don't mind paying to use E-470, I certainly don't mind the C-470 fees.
The problem with the concept of E-470 is that it is your only highway option on the eastern metro area. A toll lane, like on US-36, would be a better solution IMO, because those who want a premium service can have it, while those who just need to get from Point A to Point B will have a basic service provided to them to do that. I just don't think that highway systems should be designated as some sort of premium service.

As far as infrastructure goes, I was under the impression that there was a social contract in place, between us citizens and our government, that made these the public goods/services that our tax dollars went towards paying for, along with a national defense. I just don't understand why basic infrastructure is now becoming a premium good that costs extra on top of our taxes.
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Old 01-26-2016, 12:58 PM
 
77 posts, read 96,222 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ILikeFullService View Post
How does creating more toll roads (which people generally don't like) help people to get re-elected?
Taxes are such a third rail that no politician in their right mind will propose a new tax for roads or much else to go to a vote. Any such politician would be attacked based on their proposition alone, and then the voters might reject it anyway and make the whole venture worthless. Securing bonds with tolls and other similar ways of raising money like public-private partnerships allows CDOT to get some projects through, and legislators can stay out of it, hence helping them get re-elected. A Colorado representative is much more likely to get voted out for proposing a tax increase to the voters under the rules of TABOR than just sitting on their hands when new toll roads are proposed.

While you can argue that TABOR was not intended to work this way, history at this point would prove otherwise. It's more of pay-as-you-go government from here on out.
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Old 01-26-2016, 06:44 PM
 
459 posts, read 674,939 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluescreen73 View Post
... and states have been further diluting their revenue streams by spending gas tax monies on non-highway construction projects like bike paths.
I cannot speak to other states but CDOT doesn't really do that for bike paths. The current and planned bike paths for this state come from some combination of GoCo grants (lottery), city/county sources, and federal grants.
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Old 01-26-2016, 06:53 PM
 
Location: Prescott Valley, AZ
2,698 posts, read 2,349,321 times
Reputation: 2714
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr. Analyst View Post
The problem with the concept of E-470 is that it is your only highway option on the eastern metro area. A toll lane, like on US-36, would be a better solution IMO, because those who want a premium service can have it, while those who just need to get from Point A to Point B will have a basic service provided to them to do that. I just don't think that highway systems should be designated as some sort of premium service.

As far as infrastructure goes, I was under the impression that there was a social contract in place, between us citizens and our government, that made these the public goods/services that our tax dollars went towards paying for, along with a national defense. I just don't understand why basic infrastructure is now becoming a premium good that costs extra on top of our taxes.
I agree with this idea. However, for it to work, CDOT will have to widen E470 to 4 lanes both directions, make 1 toll lane, 3 general purpose lanes. Right now, it's not within standards.
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Old 01-26-2016, 06:53 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
960 posts, read 1,268,207 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hschlick84 View Post
So in this article, only 9,500 drivers used the I-70 toll road eastbound from Empire to Idaho Springs when it opened on December 19th. Colorado Department of Transportation confirms that it's reduced traffic and drivers are able to travel at 65mph. However, some people say toll roads are only for the rich people and not for everybody. There are people who are frustrated and would rather see toll roads removed from Colorado. What are your thoughts?

Have the I-70 toll lanes been successful?
This all comes down to how we want to fund infrastructure. Since no one wants to increase taxes to pay for roads we have to resort to privately funded roads that cost more and are built fast. Colorado isnt the only state with toll roads. Tax cuts come with cuts in infrastructure, education...etc. If you want to see crazy building and investment go to China, Dubai and other countries that invest in the middle class and a great standard of living for all of us. The baby boomers have ruined the US.
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Old 01-26-2016, 07:23 PM
 
Location: The Berk in Denver, CO USA
14,035 posts, read 20,349,383 times
Reputation: 22768
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hschlick84 View Post
CDOT will have to widen E470....
E-470 is privately owned.
CDOT has zero influence over it for the next billion years.
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