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View Poll Results: Are toll roads a failure in Colorado?
Yes 18 56.25%
No 14 43.75%
Voters: 32. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 02-02-2016, 12:27 PM
 
922 posts, read 989,974 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hschlick84 View Post
E-470 restricts movement if somebody doesn't want to pay. Paying for tolls on I-70 west of Idaho Springs restricts movement if traffic is heavy and driver refuses to pay for expensive tolls.
No, it restricts your time. You can either pay with your money or your time on I-70 or E-470 which is a perfectly acceptable economic compromise.

If one does not have the means to pay the toll than there time is not as valuable as those who does.
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Old 02-02-2016, 12:34 PM
 
Location: Prescott Valley, AZ
2,699 posts, read 2,351,075 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wong21fr View Post
No, it restricts your time. You can either pay with your money or your time on I-70 or E-470 which is a perfectly acceptable economic compromise.

If one does not have the means to pay the toll than there time is not as valuable as those who does.
My money is more valuable than wasting on overpriced tolls, it's that simple. Secondly, I don't have to drive on I-25 if traffic is heavy, I take the side streets and back roads. If you need to be somewhere fast, leave early and plan accordingly.
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Old 02-02-2016, 12:44 PM
 
459 posts, read 675,041 times
Reputation: 726
I cannot leave my driveway without my car being registered and paying FASTER fees. Restriction of movement by the state.

I cannot use expressways without buying or renting a car that's registered and paid for. Restriction of movement by the state.

Buses expect me to pay for them and so I have to walk. Restriction of movement by the state.

See how this line of reasoning can be extended to just about anything regarding transportation policy and money?

I am sorry but you can still quite easily get from point A to point B without a toll as a driver. What you are paying for (like the scenarios above) is the convenience provided by that expensive infrastructure provided by the state. What's irksome to most people is that these expressway costs were previously hidden from drivers so they didn't have to attach a cost and were free to make decisions without considering the underlying economics. Our state can no longer afford to hide all the masive expressway expansion costs from drivers so you now have to attach a price to the convenience provided by that infrastructure. Unfortunately people have been conditioned by the state to expect that convenience for no additional cost so it's hard to adjust. Look on the bright side road loving comrades, driving is still massively subsidized from local roads to parking policies to the latest way to fill the national highway trust fund gap by virtually printing money.
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Old 02-02-2016, 02:10 PM
 
77 posts, read 96,231 times
Reputation: 242
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertgoodman View Post
...
Our state no longer chooses to to hide all the masive (sic) expressway expansion costs from drivers so you now have to attach a price to the convenience provided by that infrastructure.
...
Fixed that for you. We have plenty of resources in this state and could easily afford to pay for new highways or whatever public infrastructure in Colorado if we enabled our elected representatives to do so. But we are choosing as a whole not to spend them on the populace and instead opt for individual pay-as-you-go, which benefits those who can afford to pay for express lane tolls. There is certainly a parallel universe in which TABOR's only effect was to make the population into a socialist quasi-legislature that still voted to spend on public infrastructure like expanded highways, but we're not in it. We're in the one where TABOR made even suggesting a tax increase toxic, so now everything has a fee attached, including new highway projects.

I would also add that I have come around in favor of this path despite (or perhaps because of) my usual socialistic tendencies. We have immense capacity on our roads if more people opted for bus travel, and tolls are an excellent way to promote that.

Last edited by sbelvedere; 02-02-2016 at 02:20 PM..
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Old 02-04-2016, 01:04 PM
 
387 posts, read 273,358 times
Reputation: 697
Quote:
Originally Posted by poppunk View Post
They have:

DC Metro
-----------------
Dulles Toll Road
Dulles Greenway
495/95 Express Lanes


Richmond:
-------------
Downtown Expressway
Boulevard Bridge
Pocahontas Parkway


Norfolk Area:
----------------
George P Coleman Bridge
Chesapeake Bay Tunnel
Chesapeake Expressway
Jordan Bridge
Downtown/Midtown Tunnels
Express lanes are not toll roads because you can travel the exact same route for free. Charging to transit bridges and tunnels is a widespread practice on the east coast, including in states with much higher tax burdens. The only apples-to-apples comparison to Colorado are 267 (the Dulles Toll Road and Greenway, which are essentially the same road anyway) and three in Richmond (you left off the Powhite Parkway).

The point of my post was to refute Mike from Back East's assertion that Colorado's low taxes force the state to rely on toll roads more than other states, particularly Virginia where he is from. A) Virginia's tax burden is even lower than Colorado's and B) there aren't a particularly large number of toll roads in Virginia either. You can quibble that VA has TWICE the number of toll roads that CO does, but when CO only has two toll roads, doubling it isn't hard to do.
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Old 02-06-2016, 01:19 PM
 
138 posts, read 129,067 times
Reputation: 215
Virginia spends over three times as much (5.513 billion versus 1.73 billion in FY14) on transportation than Colorado with a population, revenues, and expenditures that are only 50% larger.

Tax Foundation's ranking of tax burdens put Virginia at 9.3% (ranked 27th) and Colorado's is 8.9% (ranked 35th) in FY12, but these sorts of things always depend on who you are.

State-Local Tax Burden Rankings FY 2012 | Tax Foundation
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