Are toll roads a failure in Colorado? (Idaho Springs: high income, property taxes)

[denverian]

Originally Posted by poppunk

That's not as agreed upon by transportation experts and economists. A lot of economists believe that allowing drivers to self-select pricing on an added toll lane doesn't act the same as an additional free lane. Congestion pricing an entire road (pay by the time of day based on congestion) when the other options are limited is pretty easy to measure, but a mixed road isn't as clear.

The implementation of it as a HOV lane could have a significant impact as well, although it is something else that is hard to measure as well. If the people using it as such would have typically driven in different cars it wins. In the case of the Denver RTD system, the ability of mass transit to use the lanes increases the number of people moving on the road while not adding congestion in the non-toll lanes.

In a mathematically perfect world, people would pay on all roads based on their vehicle's contribution to road degradation, their contribution to congestion based on conditions, and their vehicle's impact on the environment. Few people would like to be charged a la carte in this manner, but it would be significantly more efficient than "free" roads where people make a lot of sub-optimal decisions about when and how much to drive.

I signed up to get an HOV sticker for my hybrid car... so I'll be able to use the HOT lanes as a single driver for free. I noticed a little article in the Post about a year ago that said CDOT was releasing more of these stickers. I guess due to the rapid increase in the lanes going on. I figured if they're going to add HOT lanes to I-70, then I wanted to get the exemption sticker.

[BarryK123]

Do you have a link about it? All I can find is they issued 2000 permits a long time ago and that's it.

[ravensfan84]

I move to CO next week..I didnt even know their were toll roads..?

Im from NJ so I am use to this but this isnt good news...

How much are tolls? And do you pay both ways?

Or just 'one way', such as when you are going into NYC, but you dont pay when leaving.

[bluescreen73]

Originally Posted by ravensfan84

I move to CO next week..I didnt even know their were toll roads..?

Im from NJ so I am use to this but this isnt good news...

How much are tolls? And do you pay both ways?

Or just 'one way', such as when you are going into NYC, but you dont pay when leaving.

You pay both ways. Toll rates are pretty pricy. E-470 (the main toll road) is roughly 36 cents per mile. Most of the toll roads/managed lanes are avoidable.

https://www.expresstoll.com/Pages/Toll-Rates.aspx

[fishhooker]

Originally Posted by downtownnola

I like the idea of toll lanes. Here's why.

How many times have we widened freeways, only to have slow drivers still gravitate to the left lanes. How many millions of dollars did CO taxpayers spend widening I-25 to 3 lanes between Denver and Longmont, and yet, traffic doesn't move any faster or efficiently than it did with 2 lanes. The reason... too many dumb drivers who still insist at driving at or below the speed limit in the left lane, and a highway patrol that would rather pull over a speeder than pull over drivers who obstruct traffic. What's the point of having so many lanes if everyone is driving the same speed in every lane? Don't even get me started, as this is my pet peeve x 100. Ok, I'll save that for another thread

At least with toll lanes, those who actually care about getting somewhere can do so, while those who are too confused, high, or otherwise impaired to drive at a reasonable highway speed, can do so in the far right lanes and get out of the way of the rest of us.

Exactly!!!

I have yet to figure out why the far right lane is the fastest on SB I25 south of the E470 junction. Supremely frustrating. Not to mention it makes conditions hazardous for those merging onto the freeway. With the current construction the merge lanes are rather short in some places. Makes it hard for people to get up to speed when traffic in the right lane is travelling at 80mph+ and frustrating for those that have to pass on the right when someone merges in front of them going 65mph.

[SkyDog77]

Originally Posted by ravensfan84

I move to CO next week..I didnt even know their were toll roads..?

Im from NJ so I am use to this but this isnt good news...

How much are tolls? And do you pay both ways?

Or just 'one way', such as when you are going into NYC, but you dont pay when leaving.

There are very few toll only roads here. It is very different than NJ.

[Mike from back east]

There is a failure here.

Toll roads are not the failure.

Toll roads are a symptom of the failure.

The true underlying failure is TABOR, which constricts this state to the extent that our elected officials cannot raise the funds to do the things it is supposed to do for the population that lives here.

I accept the low level of taxes that exist here as a "sometimes" benefit, but I've cursed the lousy roads here in COLO SPGS as the sorry-assed downside of low taxes. So I spend freely to use the toll road whenever I go to the airport or visit family up that way. Tax whiners have my blessing to drive on crowded gridlocked roads and pay hundreds of dollars to buy new tires and fix damage to their cars from the potholes.

[BarryK123]

Originally Posted by Mike from back east

I accept the low level of taxes that exist here as a "sometimes" benefit

Taxes aren't particularly low here. Having moved here from PA (Phila area) in 2009, I can tell you state income tax is higher here, real estate taxes are comparable, auto registration is MUCH higher here (was something like $25/yr in PA), sales tax is about the same.

So which taxes do you mean, Mike?

[Mike from back east]

My property taxes here are far lower here than in VA.

This chart says we're 38th on the list.

This chart indicates Colo has a lower top income tax rate than 35 states who are higher than our 4.63% rate.

Our taxes in COLO are too low for what we expect from our state government. Toll roads are a way around TABOR's straight jacket, and IMO a lousy alternative.

[poppunk]

Originally Posted by BarryK123

Taxes aren't particularly low here. Having moved here from PA (Phila area) in 2009, I can tell you state income tax is higher here, real estate taxes are comparable, auto registration is MUCH higher here (was something like $25/yr in PA), sales tax is about the same.

So which taxes do you mean, Mike?

Gas taxes are more than double in PA than they are in CO. PA has the highest gas tax per gallon in the nation. When we're talking about revenue for roads, this is significant.



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