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View Poll Results: Should Denver county repeal it's open carry ban?
Yes 19 41.30%
No 27 58.70%
Voters: 46. You may not vote on this poll

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Old 01-28-2016, 07:35 PM
 
Location: Parker, CO
1,085 posts, read 2,741,264 times
Reputation: 1780

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Quote:
Originally Posted by davidv View Post
Denver should repeal its ban on open carry if, and only if, the citizens of Denver vote to repeal the ban. Living in Northglenn does not give you the right to tell Denverites what they should or should not do. Conversely, living in Denver does not give Denverites the right to tell Northglennians (Northglennites? Northglenners? Nortegleños?) what they should or should not do.

If the ban stays, and you don't like it, don't live or visit Denver.

It's that simple.
Precisely! Post of the year.

If Denver's open carry laws (or any other Denver County law for that matter) are scary or something of which the OP disagrees, then they are welcome to stay in the burbs.
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Old 01-29-2016, 07:32 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
3,085 posts, read 2,123,226 times
Reputation: 3589
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyatwork37 View Post
Telling me the unlikely odds of me being gunned down by someone walking around with a gun aren't all that comforting when I'm dead
You are creating fear over an object where the likelihood of it impacting you are so slim as to be non-existent.

According to the National Complete Streets Coalition, 4500 annually are killed by automobiles on the streets of the US. Another 68,000 are injured. Do you have the same concern about walking around cars as you do about walking around persons with guns? Do you avoid crossing streets in metro areas when cars are present? 1.24 million people are killed globally by automobiles, according to WHO, so it sounds like vehicles are a potentially deadly item on a global scale that we should be addressing in some way that is more aggressive than what we are doing to control the potential of damage from firearms.

Should Denver repeal its open carry laws? I'd have to ask if they have a lot of violations of that law by unknowing citizens that are carrying that make it an issue worth considering. If the court system is burdened with a rash of open carry violations and other cases are not getting a timely hearing due to the backlog, then it might make sense to repeal it. Otherwise, whats the point of changing it?
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Old 01-29-2016, 08:45 AM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,174 posts, read 23,295,360 times
Reputation: 10428
Quote:
Originally Posted by ayoitzrimz View Post
If I see someone carrying a guy, I might ask if he's ok and if he needs help carrying this guy somewhere, or check to see if the guy he's carrying wants to be carried but that's just me

- sorry obviously I know what you meant, but couldn't resist ...
lol! You don't see any concealed guy carrying in Denver....
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Old 01-29-2016, 10:46 AM
 
Location: Highlands Ranch, CO
556 posts, read 578,637 times
Reputation: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by TCHP View Post
You are creating fear over an object where the likelihood of it impacting you are so slim as to be non-existent.

According to the National Complete Streets Coalition, 4500 annually are killed by automobiles on the streets of the US. Another 68,000 are injured. Do you have the same concern about walking around cars as you do about walking around persons with guns? Do you avoid crossing streets in metro areas when cars are present? 1.24 million people are killed globally by automobiles, according to WHO, so it sounds like vehicles are a potentially deadly item on a global scale that we should be addressing in some way that is more aggressive than what we are doing to control the potential of damage from firearms.

Should Denver repeal its open carry laws? I'd have to ask if they have a lot of violations of that law by unknowing citizens that are carrying that make it an issue worth considering. If the court system is burdened with a rash of open carry violations and other cases are not getting a timely hearing due to the backlog, then it might make sense to repeal it. Otherwise, whats the point of changing it?
People have to have a license to operate a car though so there is some testing. Is a licence required to operate a gun?

EDIT: Legitimate question that I don't know the answer to since I don't own a gun. I assume for a CCW permit you need to pass a test but for open carry is that also a requirement?
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Old 01-29-2016, 11:39 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
3,085 posts, read 2,123,226 times
Reputation: 3589
In Colorado it is not required to obtain a permit to purchase, obtain a license to own, or to register guns. However, you must pass a background check to purchase firearms.

Yes, all CCW permits have more in depth checks as well as classes or testing.
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Old 01-29-2016, 11:58 AM
 
20,915 posts, read 39,201,627 times
Reputation: 19212
Here's the opinion of a person who is well versed in such matters:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bob from down south View Post
Open carry in general is a bad idea, IMHO.

Another big consideration (I used to teach firearms courses) is that an openly carried weapon is FAR more likely to be the object of an attempt to take and/or use it against you. The last thing you ever want to do is get into a wrestling match with some idiot that wants to grab your pistol and either run off with it or use it on you or someone else nearby. With a concealed weapon, the element of surprise is yours, and the weapon's presence isn't part of the situation until it's in your hands and ready to use. With open carry, anyone within 15-20 feet has the element of surprise unless you're purposefully vigilant.

Most police curricula include hours of training focused specifically on how to keep that pistol in the holster, including how to read the body language of a potential attacker and literal street-fight-to-the-death hand-to-hand combat with a weapon-grabber. A good uniformed cop has a close-in space he will (must, really) defend aggressively for that reason. With an openly-carried weapon, you do not have the luxury of any lack of awareness of your surroundings or to turn your back on people.

I think most people that carry openly are trying to be noticed or make a statement, and not necessarily a good one at that.
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Old 01-29-2016, 11:59 AM
 
Location: Highlands Ranch, CO
556 posts, read 578,637 times
Reputation: 837
Quote:
Originally Posted by TCHP View Post
In Colorado it is not required to obtain a permit to purchase, obtain a license to own, or to register guns. However, you must pass a background check to purchase firearms.

Yes, all CCW permits have more in depth checks as well as classes or testing.

Ok, so if you allow open carry, then would you require people to take classes and testing?

While cars, in your previous example, cause more injuries than guns, at least people are required to have to pass a test to operate one. In an open carry scenario, that's not a requirement.

So then someone with no training can just walk around with a weapon? That seems inherently more unsafe, especially since the purpose of a gun is to, you know, injure or kill things/people.

Also, I imagine that most deaths by vehicle are through accidents, while most deaths by gun are intentional.
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Old 01-29-2016, 12:05 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
898 posts, read 992,922 times
Reputation: 1366
Quote:
Originally Posted by guyatwork37 View Post
Ok, so if you allow open carry, then would you require people to take classes and testing?

While cars, in your previous example, cause more injuries than guns, at least people are required to have to pass a test to operate one. In an open carry scenario, that's not a requirement.

So then someone with no training can just walk around with a weapon? That seems inherently more unsafe, especially since the purpose of a gun is to, you know, injure or kill things/people.

Also, I imagine that most deaths by vehicle are through accidents, while most deaths by gun are intentional.
guyatwork37 - just wanted to chime in on this "so if you allow open carry..."

Open carry IS ALREADY ALLOWED without a permit in Colorado. Denver is the ONLY county that has successfully banned open carry and successfully won against "state preemption". Lakewood, Aurora, Littleton, the Springs, etc etc etc are all places where open carry is ALREADY allowed. Just wanted to throw that out there, like I said I don't really have a strong opinion - I feel like it's a complex topic any way you go. PERSONALLY I agree with the post quoted by Mike from back east.

my observation has been that it is very rare to see someone openly carrying outside of a gun store. I think in the 3 years I've lived here I saw one guy with a button down and slacks openly carrying in Aurora but otherwise I have yet to see people openly carrying firearms around town or while hiking.

Edit: just adding that again - not much will change IMO if open carry was allowed in Denver. I just don't see many people walking around with hand cannons strapped to their waist even if it is allowed. Considering that Denver is the only county that bans it we should be seeing everyone walking around with full size guns and shooting at each other in the rest of the state according to some, or we should see crime go down to practically nil everywhere but Denver according to others (looking at you OP). Yet neither are true.

Last edited by ayoitzrimz; 01-29-2016 at 12:25 PM..
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Old 01-29-2016, 12:43 PM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,174 posts, read 23,295,360 times
Reputation: 10428
Quote:
Originally Posted by TCHP View Post
Yes, that is a possibility, however, the premise of open carry is that you make the aggressor avoid you as a target, therefore avoiding the confrontation entirely. Its a visual deterrent, no different than an armed guard sitting in the bank lobby. If they are cranked up enough to attacked an armed individual, odds are pretty good they were going to go after you anyway.





100% of the people I have ever encountered in open carry situations were law abiding citizens going about their business with no nefarious purpose.

If there are 70 million gun owners out there and there were 350 mass shootings last year, mass being more than 4 persons wounded or killed, your odds of being involved in a mass shooting would seem to be somewhere around .000005% I think your odds of being struck by lightning are better than being shot by your average gun owner.
So if the police had seen the Aurora shooter hanging out with guns behind the theater, they couldn't have done anything because it's "legal" to walk around with loaded guns hanging off of you.

I've never seen anyone out in public with a loaded gun. My assumption would be that they could be ready to begin shooting at people. If you're not a criminal but walking around with guns out, then I assume you're an absolute idiot. Either way, I'd leave the situation/store, and let them owner know I don't shop where people are allowed to open carry.

And what about the situation recently in the Springs where the dude was walking down the street with a rifle? People called the police and they said they couldn't do anything about it because that was legal. Once he started shooting, then they could send someone.

http://reverbpress.com/news/us/open-...prings-3-dead/
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Old 01-29-2016, 12:52 PM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,174 posts, read 23,295,360 times
Reputation: 10428
Quote:
Originally Posted by ayoitzrimz View Post
guyatwork37 - just wanted to chime in on this "so if you allow open carry..."

Open carry IS ALREADY ALLOWED without a permit in Colorado. Denver is the ONLY county that has successfully banned open carry and successfully won against "state preemption". Lakewood, Aurora, Littleton, the Springs, etc etc etc are all places where open carry is ALREADY allowed. Just wanted to throw that out there, like I said I don't really have a strong opinion - I feel like it's a complex topic any way you go. PERSONALLY I agree with the post quoted by Mike from back east.

my observation has been that it is very rare to see someone openly carrying outside of a gun store. I think in the 3 years I've lived here I saw one guy with a button down and slacks openly carrying in Aurora but otherwise I have yet to see people openly carrying firearms around town or while hiking.

Edit: just adding that again - not much will change IMO if open carry was allowed in Denver. I just don't see many people walking around with hand cannons strapped to their waist even if it is allowed. Considering that Denver is the only county that bans it we should be seeing everyone walking around with full size guns and shooting at each other in the rest of the state according to some, or we should see crime go down to practically nil everywhere but Denver according to others (looking at you OP). Yet neither are true.
OC probably makes sense in rural areas (or walking out of a gun store to your car). At Starbucks or The Gap, not so much.
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