Colorado and CDOT leaders attend Public Private Partnerships meeting in Dallas (Denver: house, schools)

[denverian]

Originally Posted by Good Red Road

At the very least TABOR needs to be revisited. It was very different when tolls were just 50 or 75 cents.

Yeah, the tolls today are outrageous. I take E470 once or twice a month and it's something like $6 one way. I was in Orlando last week and they had toll roads too, but it was $1 here and there.

[TCHP]

Well, it might be time for someone to take the mantle of repeal. Tabors author has just been sentenced to two years in prison for tax evasion.

TABOR author Doug Bruce gets prison term for probation violation - The Denver Post

[bluescreen73]

Originally Posted by TCHP

Well, it might be time for someone to take the mantle of repeal. Tabors author has just been sentenced to two years in prison for tax evasion.

TABOR author Doug Bruce gets prison term for probation violation - The Denver Post

Doug Bruce is a dirtbag, but thanks to the ascension of Gordon Klingendipschmitt he's no longer the biggest wingnut in El Paso County.

[Hschlick84]

Is it possible for CDOT in Colorado to build freeways with P3s without adding tolls? Could the tolls on I-25 from 20th Ave north to US-36 be removed in the future?

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by Hschlick84

Is it possible for CDOT in Colorado to build freeways with P3s without adding tolls? Could the tolls on I-25 from 20th Ave north to US-36 be removed in the future?

Probably, but where does the revenue come from to pay the private partner? There has to be some some of additional revenue stream coming to CDOT to do so.

[lunetunelover]

Originally Posted by Hschlick84

Is it possible for CDOT in Colorado to build freeways with P3s without adding tolls? Could the tolls on I-25 from 20th Ave north to US-36 be removed in the future?

Yes, it is possible and PennDOT is doing just that: What Is The Rapid Bridge Replacement Project?


Now, it is for bridge replacements, but the idea is the same. P3 projects do not require tolls, it all depends on how it's all worked out.

[Mike from back east]

From the quoted link: "...funding for this initiative will come from PennDOT’s current and future revenue streams,...PennDOT will continue to own all of the bridges included in the project. The department is contracting the design, construction and life-cycle maintenance responsibilities for 25 years...."

Sounds like all they've done is add another layer of players, complexity and profit taking to the overall picture. This sounds like the old "contracting out" gimmick that governments use. In some cases it gets things done faster and possibly better, but is no panacea for slow bureaucracies; the fix for a slow bureaucracy is to fix the bureaucracy, not contract it out and add a layer of profit taking to the picture. Having spent many years in the higher levels of the Army and its contracting processes I can reliably say that the rules and contractual complexities placed on any bureaucracy by its political rulers are a huge impediment to fast and efficient government functioning. I'm sure PA is the same and I hope it works out well for them.

I'm not in favor of letting private firms set up toll roads and reap the profits from Lexus Lane drivers to the exclusion of 75% of the taxpaying-voter base, i.e., without TABOR all of Hwy 470 would've been built from normal tax collections and would be toll free for everyone.

[Hschlick84]

I'd like to point out the South Mountain freeway in Phoenix AKA loop 202 is the first funded P3 project without using tolls in Arizona.

Background and Overview

[SkyDog77]

Originally Posted by Hschlick84

I'd like to point out the South Mountain freeway in Phoenix AKA loop 202 is the first funded P3 project without using tolls in Arizona.

Background and Overview

That's interesting. What they don't say in that press release is how much money ADOT is paying 202 to maintain the road. Clearly that is where 202 intends to make their profit whereas State DOTs do not make a profit maintaining roads. Presumably, the operational costs for ADOT will go way up to cover this cost, but maybe it makes sense since they don't have to fork over nearly the amount of cash up front that they were looking at originally.

It's also possible that due to TABOR, CDOT cannot see the same increase in its operational budget that ADOT is allowed to, so could not structure the deal the same way.

I'll ask about this next time I get a chance. Thanks for posting the link.

[Mike from back east]

Originally Posted by Hschlick84

I'd like to point out the South Mountain freeway in Phoenix AKA loop 202 is the first funded P3 project without using tolls in Arizona.

Background and Overview

Good stuff, but the FAQ says "The freeway is funded by state, federal, and local dollars. The final design, construction and 30-year maintenance follows a public-private partnership (P3), expediting construction and reducing the overall cost of the project."

It's another effort to contract out the work to a single entity, only time will tell if it works out well or has a bad ending. With the right checks and balances during construction it can work out well. Though I'd love to live to 98 I'll long be dead before the 30-year life span of the deal proves the case to be successful.