U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Colorado > Denver
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 03-14-2016, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,174 posts, read 23,231,943 times
Reputation: 10428

Advertisements

Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Red Road View Post
At the very least TABOR needs to be revisited. It was very different when tolls were just 50 or 75 cents.
Yeah, the tolls today are outrageous. I take E470 once or twice a month and it's something like $6 one way. I was in Orlando last week and they had toll roads too, but it was $1 here and there.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 03-14-2016, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
3,057 posts, read 2,086,963 times
Reputation: 3548
Well, it might be time for someone to take the mantle of repeal. Tabors author has just been sentenced to two years in prison for tax evasion.

TABOR author Doug Bruce gets prison term for probation violation - The Denver Post
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-14-2016, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Aurora, CO
6,530 posts, read 10,212,895 times
Reputation: 9761
Quote:
Originally Posted by TCHP View Post
Well, it might be time for someone to take the mantle of repeal. Tabors author has just been sentenced to two years in prison for tax evasion.

TABOR author Doug Bruce gets prison term for probation violation - The Denver Post
Doug Bruce is a dirtbag, but thanks to the ascension of Gordon Klingendipschmitt he's no longer the biggest wingnut in El Paso County.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-14-2016, 02:23 PM
 
Location: Prescott Valley, AZ
2,668 posts, read 2,316,959 times
Reputation: 2665
Is it possible for CDOT in Colorado to build freeways with P3s without adding tolls? Could the tolls on I-25 from 20th Ave north to US-36 be removed in the future?
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-14-2016, 02:27 PM
 
919 posts, read 985,181 times
Reputation: 1077
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hschlick84 View Post
Is it possible for CDOT in Colorado to build freeways with P3s without adding tolls? Could the tolls on I-25 from 20th Ave north to US-36 be removed in the future?
Probably, but where does the revenue come from to pay the private partner? There has to be some some of additional revenue stream coming to CDOT to do so.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-14-2016, 02:33 PM
 
Location: Paradise
2,456 posts, read 1,996,206 times
Reputation: 4023
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hschlick84 View Post
Is it possible for CDOT in Colorado to build freeways with P3s without adding tolls? Could the tolls on I-25 from 20th Ave north to US-36 be removed in the future?
Yes, it is possible and PennDOT is doing just that: What Is The Rapid Bridge Replacement Project?


Now, it is for bridge replacements, but the idea is the same. P3 projects do not require tolls, it all depends on how it's all worked out.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-14-2016, 03:02 PM
 
20,852 posts, read 39,085,412 times
Reputation: 19110
From the quoted link: "...funding for this initiative will come from PennDOT’s current and future revenue streams,...PennDOT will continue to own all of the bridges included in the project. The department is contracting the design, construction and life-cycle maintenance responsibilities for 25 years...."

Sounds like all they've done is add another layer of players, complexity and profit taking to the overall picture. This sounds like the old "contracting out" gimmick that governments use. In some cases it gets things done faster and possibly better, but is no panacea for slow bureaucracies; the fix for a slow bureaucracy is to fix the bureaucracy, not contract it out and add a layer of profit taking to the picture. Having spent many years in the higher levels of the Army and its contracting processes I can reliably say that the rules and contractual complexities placed on any bureaucracy by its political rulers are a huge impediment to fast and efficient government functioning. I'm sure PA is the same and I hope it works out well for them.

I'm not in favor of letting private firms set up toll roads and reap the profits from Lexus Lane drivers to the exclusion of 75% of the taxpaying-voter base, i.e., without TABOR all of Hwy 470 would've been built from normal tax collections and would be toll free for everyone.
__________________
- Please follow our TOS.
- Any Questions about City-Data? See the FAQ list.
- Want some detailed instructions on using the site? See The Guide for plain english explanation.
- Realtors are welcome here but do see our Realtor Advice to avoid infractions.
- Thank you and enjoy City-Data.

Last edited by Mike from back east; 03-14-2016 at 03:15 PM..
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-14-2016, 03:26 PM
 
Location: Prescott Valley, AZ
2,668 posts, read 2,316,959 times
Reputation: 2665
I'd like to point out the South Mountain freeway in Phoenix AKA loop 202 is the first funded P3 project without using tolls in Arizona.

Background and Overview
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-14-2016, 03:42 PM
 
Location: Washington Park, Denver
6,909 posts, read 6,510,604 times
Reputation: 7355
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hschlick84 View Post
I'd like to point out the South Mountain freeway in Phoenix AKA loop 202 is the first funded P3 project without using tolls in Arizona.

Background and Overview
That's interesting. What they don't say in that press release is how much money ADOT is paying 202 to maintain the road. Clearly that is where 202 intends to make their profit whereas State DOTs do not make a profit maintaining roads. Presumably, the operational costs for ADOT will go way up to cover this cost, but maybe it makes sense since they don't have to fork over nearly the amount of cash up front that they were looking at originally.

It's also possible that due to TABOR, CDOT cannot see the same increase in its operational budget that ADOT is allowed to, so could not structure the deal the same way.

I'll ask about this next time I get a chance. Thanks for posting the link.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-14-2016, 03:50 PM
 
20,852 posts, read 39,085,412 times
Reputation: 19110
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hschlick84 View Post
I'd like to point out the South Mountain freeway in Phoenix AKA loop 202 is the first funded P3 project without using tolls in Arizona.

Background and Overview
Good stuff, but the FAQ says "The freeway is funded by state, federal, and local dollars. The final design, construction and 30-year maintenance follows a public-private partnership (P3), expediting construction and reducing the overall cost of the project."

It's another effort to contract out the work to a single entity, only time will tell if it works out well or has a bad ending. With the right checks and balances during construction it can work out well. Though I'd love to live to 98 I'll long be dead before the 30-year life span of the deal proves the case to be successful.
__________________
- Please follow our TOS.
- Any Questions about City-Data? See the FAQ list.
- Want some detailed instructions on using the site? See The Guide for plain english explanation.
- Realtors are welcome here but do see our Realtor Advice to avoid infractions.
- Thank you and enjoy City-Data.
Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:


Options
X
Data:
Loading data...
Based on 2000-2016 data
Loading data...

123
Hide US histogram

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > U.S. Forums > Colorado > Denver
Follow City-Data.com founder on our Forum or

All times are GMT -6. The time now is 06:39 AM.

© 2005-2019, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35 - Top