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Old 03-15-2016, 06:02 AM
 
Location: Paradise
2,456 posts, read 1,985,766 times
Reputation: 4023

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east View Post
Sounds like all they've done is add another layer of players, complexity and profit taking to the overall picture. This sounds like the old "contracting out" gimmick that governments use. In some cases it gets things done faster and possibly better, but is no panacea for slow bureaucracies; the fix for a slow bureaucracy is to fix the bureaucracy, not contract it out and add a layer of profit taking to the picture. Having spent many years in the higher levels of the Army and its contracting processes I can reliably say that the rules and contractual complexities placed on any bureaucracy by its political rulers are a huge impediment to fast and efficient government functioning. I'm sure PA is the same and I hope it works out well for them.


Never said anything about whether it "fixes" the bureaucracy or not. I simply showed another example of how a P3 project can be built without tolls. Tolls are not a given part of P3. Some projects lend themselves to tolls, some don't.


For PennDOT's P3 project, they are using their regular state and federal maintenance funding. Yes, it's taxpayer monies.


Fixing the bureaucracies just boggles the mind. I've managed and created federal contracts for highway construction for years. The simplest and cheapest way to build the infrastructure is to let the contracts at the lowest level - ie give the money directly to the localities with no strings. But we all know that will never happen and will cause problems. I don't like the red tape either, but I understand why most of it is there.
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Old 03-15-2016, 09:30 AM
 
918 posts, read 982,168 times
Reputation: 1069
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hschlick84 View Post
I'd like to point out the South Mountain freeway in Phoenix AKA loop 202 is the first funded P3 project without using tolls in Arizona.

Background and Overview
All this means is that the State of Arizona is guaranteeing the concessionaire's payments. So the State takes the risk of having to appropriate funding from other sources (highway maintenance, schools, Medicaid, etc.) to provide the annual payments should funding become an issue. The I-70 rebuild in Denver will be similar. CDOT is adding managed lanes but they aren't meant to provide funding for the concessionaire as far as I know.

CDOT's issue is that they don't have any such forthcoming revenue streams to do a ton more projects following I-70. Sure, they could cannibalize maintenance funding for capital projects, as the Colorado GOP has proposed, but all it does is make your maintenance backlog worse and further degrade your infrastructure.
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Old 03-15-2016, 09:44 AM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,174 posts, read 23,191,691 times
Reputation: 10428
Quote:
Originally Posted by wong21fr View Post
All this means is that the State of Arizona is guaranteeing the concessionaire's payments. So the State takes the risk of having to appropriate funding from other sources (highway maintenance, schools, Medicaid, etc.) to provide the annual payments should funding become an issue. The I-70 rebuild in Denver will be similar. CDOT is adding managed lanes but they aren't meant to provide funding for the concessionaire as far as I know.

CDOT's issue is that they don't have any such forthcoming revenue streams to do a ton more projects following I-70. Sure, they could cannibalize maintenance funding for capital projects, as the Colorado GOP has proposed, but all it does is make your maintenance backlog worse and further degrade your infrastructure.
I got an HOV exemption sticker for my hybrid, so I'm free to drive these lanes alone. I figured with I-70 heading that direction (high toll lanes), it was a good idea to apply for one.
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Old 03-15-2016, 10:13 AM
 
918 posts, read 982,168 times
Reputation: 1069
Quote:
Originally Posted by denverian View Post
I got an HOV exemption sticker for my hybrid, so I'm free to drive these lanes alone. I figured with I-70 heading that direction (high toll lanes), it was a good idea to apply for one.
So, you use far less gas (thereby decreasing road funding) and use the HOV lane for free (thereby forcing non-hybrid drivers using the lane to subsidize your access)? Yet your vehicle still takes up roadspace and your subsidized access limits other users who are paying for access. You, sir, are a taker and only getting Donald Trump in the White House cant stop this madness.

(This post is totally in jest)
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Old 03-15-2016, 10:27 AM
 
20,817 posts, read 39,009,891 times
Reputation: 19010
Quote:
Originally Posted by wong21fr View Post
So, you use far less gas (thereby decreasing road funding) and use the HOV lane for free (thereby forcing non-hybrid drivers using the lane to subsidize your access)? Yet your vehicle still takes up roadspace and your subsidized access limits other users who are paying for access. You, sir, are a taker and only getting Donald Trump in the White House cant stop this madness.

(This post is totally in jest)
Cool post. But it highlights the inequalities and gimmicks that arise to get around TABOR which isn't working. We get starved of needed infrastructure, schools, etc, but the corporate loopholes and tax expenditures merrily roll on to feed that over-gorged beast which is the 1%ers who are laughing all the way to the bank at our expense.
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Old 03-15-2016, 01:49 PM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,174 posts, read 23,191,691 times
Reputation: 10428
Quote:
Originally Posted by wong21fr View Post
So, you use far less gas (thereby decreasing road funding) and use the HOV lane for free (thereby forcing non-hybrid drivers using the lane to subsidize your access)? Yet your vehicle still takes up roadspace and your subsidized access limits other users who are paying for access. You, sir, are a taker and only getting Donald Trump in the White House cant stop this madness.

(This post is totally in jest)
Guilty as charged But really, I just like getting back from Boulder fast.
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Old 03-15-2016, 02:04 PM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,174 posts, read 23,191,691 times
Reputation: 10428
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike from back east View Post
Cool post. But it highlights the inequalities and gimmicks that arise to get around TABOR which isn't working. We get starved of needed infrastructure, schools, etc, but the corporate loopholes and tax expenditures merrily roll on to feed that over-gorged beast which is the 1%ers who are laughing all the way to the bank at our expense.
I was actually surprised they still gave out more of these exemption stickers, considering how many hybrids are on the road. I think they released a thousand or so of them. I've never seen one on another car before. And in my defense, I won't be using the HOT lanes daily.
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Old 03-15-2016, 04:23 PM
 
Location: Evergreen, Colorado
650 posts, read 562,593 times
Reputation: 999
Quote:
Originally Posted by wong21fr View Post
So, you use far less gas (thereby decreasing road funding) and use the HOV lane for free (thereby forcing non-hybrid drivers using the lane to subsidize your access)? Yet your vehicle still takes up roadspace and your subsidized access limits other users who are paying for access. You, sir, are a taker and only getting Donald Trump in the White House cant stop this madness.

(This post is totally in jest)
Great County America!
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Old 03-15-2016, 04:25 PM
 
Location: Evergreen, Colorado
650 posts, read 562,593 times
Reputation: 999
Quote:
Originally Posted by denverian View Post
I was actually surprised they still gave out more of these exemption stickers, considering how many hybrids are on the road. I think they released a thousand or so of them. I've never seen one on another car before. And in my defense, I won't be using the HOT lanes daily.
Now you only need to scam a handicap sticker for closer parking and you'll be set.
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Old 03-16-2016, 09:16 AM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,174 posts, read 23,191,691 times
Reputation: 10428
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Red Road View Post
Now you only need to scam a handicap sticker for closer parking and you'll be set.
I'm not a Trump supporter

For the record, I'm not breaking any laws, and other states offer the same thing for hybrid and electric cars in HOV lanes. It's nothing new. It's called an incentive.
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