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Old 05-09-2016, 12:46 PM
 
Location: Evergreen, Colorado
650 posts, read 566,007 times
Reputation: 999

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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertgoodman View Post
Our grandparents didn't provide the funds or adequate funding mechanism to expand the interstate to meet the demand we keep inducing, and to adequately maintain the interstate system.
Actually they did, but recent generations haven't keep up their part of the bargain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by robertgoodman View Post
[b]the question is what's the best thing to do about it going forward
Fair enough. I'm only arguing that extreme and punishing user fees are regressive, impeding to commerce and ultimately not an effective solution.

We won't solve our transportation problems by simply dividing ourselves into groups and then seeking to get "the other group" to pay. Just saying.
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Old 05-09-2016, 01:04 PM
 
459 posts, read 673,160 times
Reputation: 726
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Red Road View Post
Actually they did, but recent generations haven't keep up their part of the bargain.
They did not provide a mechanism that would keep up with inflation, but to your point both congress and our legislature have neglected to do so as well. They also certainly did not provide a funding mechanism that would prevent people from making bad macro economic decisions that make sense at the individual level, and one that would inevitably lead to a tragedy of the commons economic scenario that is traffic congestion.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Red Road View Post
Fair enough. I'm only arguing that extreme and punishing user fees are regressive, impeding to commerce and ultimately not an effective solution.

We won't solve our transportation problems by simply dividing ourselves into groups and then seeking to get "the other group" to pay. Just saying.
User fees are only regressive if you don't provide alternatives (hence the shuttle system). The current situation requires lower class people to get around solely by an expensive automobile which is very punitive and a much more regressive transportation policy.

How will commerce be impeded if people actually pay market value at current times? If it's $12 for a trucker to go up from Denver on I70 at 7am on a Sunday morning and $0.75 on a Monday morning that trucker will work it out and go when it's cheaper. The road will then be used more efficiently with traffic spread out. That minimal cost will be passed on to the consumer as it should be.

Congestion pricing is an absolutely effective solution (see London and Milan) assuming it is priced appropriately (see Katy Freeway HOT lanes which aren't).

Dividing us into groups is exactly what you were doing with the skier transportation fee, what I want to do is get people to use a scarce economic resource (in this case ROW in the mountains) more effectively and provide alternatives for those who cannot afford to use it at peak times but still want to.
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Old 05-09-2016, 05:51 PM
 
Location: on a hill
346 posts, read 392,365 times
Reputation: 454
Quote:
Originally Posted by IndyRC View Post
I for one enjoy driving and riding motorcycles. I wonder what would happen to the motorcycle industry if vehicles were mandated to be driverless.

Don't worry. Not going to happen...at least not in our lifetimes. Driverless cars will be a choice, and will probably offer dual mode operation anyway. We moto enthusiasts will still be around.
The only mandate for now should be a more stringent drivers ed curriculum. Morons simply wouldn't get drivers licences.
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Old 08-16-2016, 03:39 PM
 
Location: The Berk in Denver, CO USA
13,973 posts, read 20,251,487 times
Reputation: 22612
Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnJam View Post
Driverless cars will be a choice
Maybe a choice or not.
https://medium.com/startup-grind/why...s-3f1f27717638
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Old 08-17-2016, 08:32 AM
 
92 posts, read 75,685 times
Reputation: 164
Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Red Road View Post
This is a good point, and in my view it should take an act of congress. These are the roads are grandparents built with a social contract that provided for the funds to build and maintain them, and now it seems many want to punish the very people that use them.

And a standby cue for "History Essay of Americas' Subsidized Suburban Freeway System" by random CD poster .......and......go cue!
Society has generally moved towards taxing undesirable behavior and to push behavior towards something else. Alcohol, marijuana, cigarettes, etc etc are taxed at high rates. Driving is quickly moving into that realm. It causes pollution, congestion and the cost of upkeep/expansion of roadways is extremely expensive. It makes sense that the cost increases to a point where fewer people will do it.
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Old 09-19-2016, 06:09 PM
 
Location: Washington Park, Denver
6,912 posts, read 6,517,976 times
Reputation: 7365
Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnJam View Post
Don't worry. Not going to happen...at least not in our lifetimes. Driverless cars will be a choice, and will probably offer dual mode operation anyway. We moto enthusiasts will still be around.
The only mandate for now should be a more stringent drivers ed curriculum. Morons simply wouldn't get drivers licences.
It's going to happen.

Quote:
WASHINGTON — Federal auto safety regulators on Monday made it official: They are betting the nation’s highways will be safer with more cars driven by machines and not people.

In long-awaited guidelines for the booming industry of automated vehicles, the Obama administration promised strong safety oversight, but sent a clear signal to automakers that the door was wide open for driverless cars.

“We envision in the future, you can take your hands off the wheel, and your commute becomes restful or productive instead of frustrating and exhausting,” said Jeffrey Zients, director of the National Economic Council, adding that highly automated vehicles “will save time, money and lives.”

The statements were the most aggressive signal yet by federal regulators that they see automated car technology as a win for auto safety. Yet having officially endorsed the fast-evolving technology, regulators must now balance the commercial interests of companies including Tesla, Google and Uber with concerns over public safety, especially in light of recent crashes involving semiautonomous cars.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/09/20/te...uidelines.html
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Old 09-20-2016, 01:43 PM
SQL
 
Location: The State of Delusion - Colorado
1,337 posts, read 844,221 times
Reputation: 1492
I thought David Aguilar's first post was pretty close to what I'd post.

Another thing I'll add: The Natives are a very proud people.

Whoa, Nelly! Spend some time on this forum to observe what I'm talking about. Still don't believe me? Well, this is actually a thing: Native Bumper Sticker. You can Google "Native Bumper Sticker", and this will be the first result. No other state, mind you, really has something of significance like this.

I love a lot about Colorado. That said, I have criticisms of it as well. But when you say one ill-perceived, negative remark about Denver or the state, be ready for WWIII. Talk about "triggered". I've never met so many folks who feel like you've insulted God's paradise on Earth if you step out of line with the general pandering and shilling for this region that goes on here.

FWIW, the natives don't seem as bad in person. At least the ones I know.

Last edited by SQL; 09-20-2016 at 01:55 PM..
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Old 09-20-2016, 02:16 PM
 
Location: In The Thin Air
12,268 posts, read 8,057,703 times
Reputation: 8911
Quote:
Originally Posted by SQL View Post
I thought David Aguilar's first post was pretty close to what I'd post.

Another thing I'll add: The Natives are a very proud people.

Whoa, Nelly! Spend some time on this forum to observe what I'm talking about. Still don't believe me? Well, this is actually a thing: Native Bumper Sticker. You can Google "Native Bumper Sticker", and this will be the first result. No other state, mind you, really has something of significance like this.

I love a lot about Colorado. That said, I have criticisms of it as well. But when you say one ill-perceived, negative remark about Denver or the state, be ready for WWIII. Talk about "triggered". I've never met so many folks who feel like you've insulted God's paradise on Earth if you step out of line with the general pandering and shilling for this region that goes on here.

FWIW, the natives don't seem as bad in person. At least the ones I know.
I have never experienced any thing like it here when it comes to Natives. They are definitely proud but also some of them really don't like us transplants.

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Old 09-20-2016, 02:28 PM
SQL
 
Location: The State of Delusion - Colorado
1,337 posts, read 844,221 times
Reputation: 1492
Quote:
Originally Posted by Timmyy View Post
I have never experienced any thing like it here when it comes to Natives. They are definitely proud but also some of them really don't like us transplants.
FWIW, if I hold any disdain for Natives, it's because of the attitudes on this website and this website only. I've never personally had a negative encounter with a Native in person, strictly due to me being a non-Native.

I have, however, seen some snarky bumper stickers on the road that accompany the requisite "Native" sticker that usually states something negative about non-Natives being here.
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Old 09-20-2016, 02:33 PM
 
Location: Denver, CO
760 posts, read 584,973 times
Reputation: 1482
Still not as bad as Californians though. Say anything about how you would never want to live there, and it's all "Your just jealous you can't live here", or "your just saying that because your state sucks".
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