Will you use the new commuter rail line to DIA? (expense, company)

[SkyDog77]

Originally Posted by KaaBoom

RTD’s Twitter feed is filled with discussions of these type of problems on the A Line almost everyday. It doesn’t sound good for a brand new line, that should have been tested, before it opened. I have read some comments, that say the service is just not reliable enough to be able to count on it to get to the airport on time for flights.

I watched the test cars run for months. Painting the picture that it wasn't tested is very inaccurate.

[Mach50]

New systems always have some issues. I love that A line.

[KaaBoom]

Originally Posted by SkyDog77

I watched the test cars run for months. Painting the picture that it wasn't tested is very inaccurate.

I should have said, these type of problems should have been worked out during testing. Testing a new rail line for x number of months, and then opening the line whether it’s ready or not, doesn’t really accomplish much. If they are going to do that, then why test it at all? RTD knew the line had problems, but they opened it any way. Now they have a rail line that is very unreliable.

I think RTD’s big problem is their stupid schedule for trying to open four rail lines in one year. That is just dumb, and unprecedented. Even much larger transit agencies concentrate on one major project at a time. When I first saw their timetable, I din’t think that schedule would even be possible, and I thought they would end up delaying some the lines for at least a year. RTD is proving me wrong, but it’s not going smoothly. At this point I have no doubt the remainder of the projects will open on schedule, but just as buggy as the A Line. RTD's commitment is to opening on time, not necessarily to the quality of the project.

A bigger problem though, is RTD's choosing the lowest possible cost equipment and lowest cost contractor, to operate it. These trains will have to last RTD at least the next 40 years. If the cars in Philadelphia (same order as RTDs), are already showing major structural defects, even if no similar problems show up in RTD’s rail cars at this time, what are these cars, going to look like in 10, 20, 30, 40 years? At some point more defects are going to show up, and that is the type of stuff that could shut the system down, for an extended period of time. It’s happened before in other places.

[alloo66]

Originally Posted by KaaBoom

I should have said, these type of problems should have been worked out during testing. Testing a new rail line for x number of months, and then opening the line whether it’s ready or not, doesn’t really accomplish much. If they are going to do that, then why test it at all? RTD knew the line had problems, but they opened it any way. Now they have a rail line that is very unreliable.

I think RTD’s big problem is their stupid schedule for trying to open four rail lines in one year. That is just dumb, and unprecedented. Even much larger transit agencies concentrate on one major project at a time. When I first saw their timetable, I din’t think that schedule would even be possible, and I thought they would end up delaying some the lines for at least a year. RTD is proving me wrong, but it’s not going smoothly. At this point I have no doubt the remainder of the projects will open on schedule, but just as buggy as the A Line. RTD's commitment is to opening on time, not necessarily to the quality of the project.

A bigger problem though, is RTD's choosing the lowest possible cost equipment and lowest cost contractor, to operate it. These trains will have to last RTD at least the next 40 years. If the cars in Philadelphia (same order as RTDs), are already showing major structural defects, even if no similar problems show up in RTD’s rail cars at this time, what are these cars, going to look like in 10, 20, 30, 40 years? At some point more defects are going to show up, and that is the type of stuff that could shut the system down, for an extended period of time. It’s happened before in other places.

The Federal government requires the testing. RTD is not responsible for weather related issues. RTD is implementing some leading edge stuff like positive train control for safety. I'd rather RTD implement projects faster than wait. Denver Transit Partners is a private business who maintains and runs the Commuter Rail. Scheduling has to do with bus schedules. DTP and RTD is a private-public partnership. RTD is making the right investments in the City's infrastructure.

Do you prefer more congestion on the roads? The A Line has a 92% on time rate. Technology cost are lower today than ever before. Would you prefer to pay more for the system? Interesting! What does any transit infrastructure look like in 10, 20, 30 or 40 years? You have to pay to maintain a system, its not free.

I am for more transit projects. It's unfortunate that in Europe and Asia has more advanced transportation and communication networks. Is traffic better with less cars on the road during this construction period? Yes! Is any system perfect? No. Do you try to mitigate the risks? Yes! Life happens dude. I take the A-Line regularly! Do we blame CDOT for accidents on the road? What about those delays? The highway is not reliable. Interesting!

What are some of the issues that other Transit agencies that implement commuter rail have? What is their OT metrics. I'm interested to hear. How many passengers does SEPTA move a day? How does A-LIne compare to BART, DART, SEPTA, MARTA, ...etc. Just curious. What other cities around the world have Transportation Rail issues? I'd rather have a transit system being agressive than a passive one not solving transportation needs of its customers. Hyundai is the largest chaebol in Korea that happens make the best automobiles in the world, as well as ships and other industrial equipment. I'm interested to hear other transit agency statistics.

I'd rather be late than not make it to my destination. Life happens! Be part of the solution! Interesting.

[KaaBoom]

Originally Posted by alloo66

The Federal government requires the testing. RTD is not responsible for weather related issues. RTD is implementing some leading edge stuff like positive train control for safety. I'd rather RTD implement projects faster than wait. Denver Transit Partners is a private business who maintains and runs the Commuter Rail. Scheduling has to do with bus schedules. DTP and RTD is a private-public partnership. RTD is making the right investments in the City's infrastructure.

Do you prefer more congestion on the roads? The A Line has a 92% on time rate. Technology cost are lower today than ever before. Would you prefer to pay more for the system? Interesting! What does any transit infrastructure look like in 10, 20, 30 or 40 years? You have to pay to maintain a system, its not free.

I am for more transit projects. It's unfortunate that in Europe and Asia has more advanced transportation and communication networks. Is traffic better with less cars on the road during this construction period? Yes! Is any system perfect? No. Do you try to mitigate the risks? Yes! Life happens dude. I take the A-Line regularly! Do we blame CDOT for accidents on the road? What about those delays? The highway is not reliable. Interesting!

What are some of the issues that other Transit agencies that implement commuter rail have? What is their OT metrics. I'm interested to hear. How many passengers does SEPTA move a day? How does A-LIne compare to BART, DART, SEPTA, MARTA, ...etc. Just curious. What other cities around the world have Transportation Rail issues? I'd rather have a transit system being agressive than a passive one not solving transportation needs of its customers. Hyundai is the largest chaebol in Korea that happens make the best automobiles in the world, as well as ships and other industrial equipment. I'm interested to hear other transit agency statistics.

I'd rather be late than not make it to my destination. Life happens! Be part of the solution! Interesting.

1. Positive Train Control is not leading edge stuff. It’s required of all railroads in the US by the Rail Safety Improvement Act of 2008

2. The A line on time performance was 89% as of June 14th. I doubt it has improved to 92%, but if you have a link that says it has I would be interested to see it.

3. Ridership on the A Line is 16,910. SEPTA ridership is 343,800, BART is 452,600, DART is 104,800, and MARTA is 231,700.

4. What other cities around the world have Transportation Rail issues? Well SEPTA is having issues right now. Washington has been having major issues. Many other cities have no issues what so ever.

5. I have never heard anyone say that Korea makes the best automobiles in the world. I’m pretty sure that Japan, Germany, and Italy make the best automobiles in the world.

Source for #2 and #3 Union Station-DIA train criticized by RTD board The rest of my information is from Wikipedia.

[SkyDog77]

Originally Posted by KaaBoom

1. Positive Train Control is not leading edge stuff. It’s required of all railroads in the US by the Rail Safety Improvement Act of 2008

2. The A line on time performance was 89% as of June 14th. I doubt it has improved to 92%, but if you have a link that says it has I would be interested to see it.

3. Ridership on the A Line is 16,910. SEPTA ridership is 343,800, BART is 452,600, DART is 104,800, and MARTA is 231,700.

4. What other cities around the world have Transportation Rail issues? Well SEPTA is having issues right now. Washington has been having major issues. Many other cities have no issues what so ever.

5. I have never heard anyone say that Korea makes the best automobiles in the world. I’m pretty sure that Japan, Germany, and Italy make the best automobiles in the world.

Source for #2 and #3 Union Station-DIA train criticized by RTD board The rest of my information is from Wikipedia.

PTC is not installed in all rail lines.

Comparing a single line's ridership to other entire systems seems strange.

Is the difference between 89 and 92 significant in your eyes?

Examples of cities with zero issues?

Why are we comparing automobiles to trains with regards to quality construction?

[KaaBoom]

Originally Posted by SkyDog77

PTC is not installed in all rail lines.

Positive Train Control (PTC) Overview (Railroad Safety)


Positive Train Control Overview

Summary
In 2008, Congress required railroads install Positive Train Control (PTC) on mainlines that transport any poisonous-inhalation-hazardous (PIH) materials and where regularly scheduled intercity passenger or commuter rail services are provided.

Positive Train Control (PTC) Overview (Railroad Safety) | Federal Railroad Administration

Originally Posted by SkyDog77

Comparing a single line's ridership to other entire systems seems strange.

I agree. I was simply answering the OPs questions. But since at this time RTD only has one commuter rail line, that is RTDs entire commuter rail system at this time. So it’s not entirely an unfair comparison.

How about we compare the A Line (one line) ridership 16,910 to Caltrain (one line) ridership 58,245.

Originally Posted by SkyDog77

Is the difference between 89 and 92 significant in your eyes?

Well, would you rather have a 89% chance of getting to the airport in time to catch your flight, or a 92% chance? Either way I think it is unacceptable performance. A rail line like that should have on-time performance not less then 99.95%. 89% is utterly ridiculous.

Originally Posted by SkyDog77

Examples of cities with zero issues?

Any in Japan. Japanese trains never have issues of any type.

Originally Posted by SkyDog77

Why are we comparing automobiles to trains with regards to quality construction?

I don’t know. Ask the OP. I guess maybe his point was that because Korea makes the best automobiles (which they don’t), they must make the best trains too (which they don’t either).

[ayoitzrimz]

Anecdotal evidence only: train is almost ALWAYS running behind schedule for me. Was running smoothly at first but lately it's been terrible.

[alloo66]

Well B Line is opening soon. https://youtu.be/ORjMuR1yl7A

What do you think?

[MN_Ski]

Took it again today from DIA to Union Station. It ran smoothly with no slow downs. It was pretty busy though, to the point where new riders were having to stand...so I guess that's a good thing?