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Old 07-30-2016, 08:19 PM
 
Location: Arizona
4,514 posts, read 2,269,847 times
Reputation: 3730

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Quote:
Originally Posted by CuriousMiscer View Post
Fixed

$100k required income for the "privilege" of renting a (overpriced) unit in one of the many aging, outdated, creaky, run-down 70s-era apartment buildings around Denver.... pffftt, get outta here with that

In a city like LA or NYC housing is expensive too, but at least in those places you "get something" in return for your money (oceans, scenery/eye candy, plenty of things to do, etc). Here it just seems housing costs are always rising, while everything else stays the same/boring.
Los Angeles has some very, very expensive areas but there are many inexpensive shoebox apartments going for $800-$900 a month which is reasonable considering the size of the metro area and the amenities.

Denver does not have the amount of outdated, tiny, run-down sub $1000/mo apartments that Los Angeles does. Even though parts of Los Angeles are extremely expensive compared to Denver, there is still a large number of outdated, tiny apartments for less then what is available in Denver.

Only, occasionally does a sub-$1000/mo apartments come available in Denver and when it does it is usually on South Federal or Parker Road. Sometimes an apartment for less then $1000/mo comes available in Capitol Hill.

I just returned to Arizona and never thought I would but even the nicest suburbs like Tempe and Scottsdale have small, older apartments available for $700/month and many times in Arizona it seems like utilities are included.

Another thing I notice is the amount of out-of-state license plates is incredible in Denver and Colorado Springs compared to Phoenix. I also don't see the amount of out-of-state plates when I am in Nevada and California.

I really wonder how fast it is growing, it seems as though the pricier the Front Range of Colorado gets the more out of state license plates there are.

While Denver is a clean, decent city with an excellent economy, in my opinion the mountain views are some of the worst of any western city and I have to agree that it stays the same. In fact in my opinion it is far more boring city then it used to be.
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Old 07-30-2016, 08:22 PM
 
Location: Aurora, CO
7,324 posts, read 11,586,625 times
Reputation: 11666
Quote:
Originally Posted by lovecrowds View Post
Los Angeles has some very, very expensive areas but there are many inexpensive shoebox apartments going for $800-$900 a month which is reasonable considering the size of the metro area and the amenities.

Denver does not have the amount of outdated, tiny, run-down sub $1000/mo apartments that Los Angeles does. Even though parts of Los Angeles are extremely expensive compared to Denver, there is still a large number of outdated, tiny apartments for less then what is available in Denver.

Only, occasionally does a sub-$1000/mo apartments come available in Denver and when it does it is usually on South Federal or Parker Road. Sometimes an apartment for less then $1000/mo comes available in Capitol Hill.

I just returned to Arizona and never thought I would but even the nicest suburbs like Tempe and Scottsdale have small, older apartments available for $700/month and many times in Arizona it seems like utilities are included.

While Denver is a clean, safe city with an excellent economy, in my opinion the mountain views are some of the worst of any western city and I have to agree that it stays the same. In fact in my opinion it is far more boring city then it used to be.
Well bless your heart. Don't let the door hit ya where the good lord split ya.
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Old 08-01-2016, 12:50 AM
 
484 posts, read 1,258,177 times
Reputation: 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by macrabbit View Post
How is it even legal to force applicants to submit private information like incomes etc.? It doesn't seem right. I've always thought a credit and background check were the normal protocol? We are moving to the Golden area next year, and won't have US based income statements or job history, but money isn't an issue. This worries me!
So true, this has always worried me as well. The stupid landlords and apartment management companies, are (wrongly) thinking that having a great credit score ... does NOT implicitly assume that one has a job or other form of continuous and safe income. They are simply IDIOTS - because how come someone can consume/spend and achieve a great credit history without being financial responsible, and with high probability - have a safe job / source of income. Stupid mentality...
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Old 08-01-2016, 12:54 AM
 
484 posts, read 1,258,177 times
Reputation: 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by CuriousMiscer View Post
Fixed

$100k required income for the "privilege" of renting a (overpriced) unit in one of the many aging, outdated, creaky, run-down 70s-era apartment buildings around Denver.... pffftt, get outta here with that

In a city like LA or NYC housing is expensive too, but at least in those places you "get something" in return for your money (oceans, scenery/eye candy, plenty of things to do, etc). Here it just seems housing costs are always rising, while everything else stays the same/boring.
+1 (and recently had to go thru this painful experience of finding another apt to rent]
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Old 08-01-2016, 12:55 AM
 
484 posts, read 1,258,177 times
Reputation: 406
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphagifted View Post
oh yes when i was giving the list of items required by the leasing offices i wasnt talking about new complex, we are talking about really old minimal maintenance (crack on walls, old painting, cheap repairs etc) and my frustration continues.... Im seriously considering to move somewhere far from denver, maybe buildings/landlords there are friendlier?

I feel like finding a place to live in co is a full time job =-/
lord, give me patience and give me to me now!
+1
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Old 08-01-2016, 09:29 AM
 
371 posts, read 426,250 times
Reputation: 840
Quote:
Originally Posted by macrabbit View Post
How is it even legal to force applicants to submit private information like incomes etc.? It doesn't seem right. I've always thought a credit and background check were the normal protocol? We are moving to the Golden area next year, and won't have US based income statements or job history, but money isn't an issue. This worries me!
You have to provide proof of income to get a mortgage on a home. Why shouldn't you to rent a place?

It's pretty simple, really...if I'm a landlord renting a $1,000 a month apartment, I don't want someone (or a combination of people) who makes only $1,500 a month renting it. There's a good chance that they aren't going to be able to pay it, meaning that the landlord gets the fun of late payments/eviction notices/etc. But if the person (or combination of people) making $3,000 a month after taxes probably aren't going to have too many problems paying the rent. I don't need to check constantly after that, but I want some basic reassurance. For the self-employed or recently-moved-and-living-off-their-savings, there might be some different standards and ways to work around it, but there still will be some standards.

I lived at a complex that only required 2X the rent to rent there. There were months where I'd walk up to my place on the 2nd floor and see that all but 4 out of the 12 apartments on that floor had late notices placed on their doors. The ones that didn't were the leasing office worker, the person who did the deep cleans on apartments when people moved out, the guy who did some weird combination of day trading and running a dry cleaning business, and me (who spent about 25% of their income on rent and a hard and fast rule that the day I got my 2nd paycheck of the month, I'd go pay my rent before anything else).

There are some massive problems with housing availability and affordability throughout the metro area. But I still completely understand requiring submitting income information to rent a place.
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Old 08-01-2016, 09:53 AM
 
371 posts, read 426,250 times
Reputation: 840
Quote:
Originally Posted by alphagifted View Post
Oh yes when i was giving the list of items required by the leasing offices i wasnt talking about new complex, we are talking about really old minimal maintenance (crack on walls, old painting, cheap repairs etc) and my frustration continues.... im seriously considering to move somewhere far from Denver, maybe buildings/landlords there are friendlier?

I feel like finding a place to live in CO is a full time job =-/

Lord, give me patience and give me to me NOW!
Sorry. You're moving to an overpriced, overrated city.

It happened quickly too...

In the span of maybe 2-3 years, couples and families making 60-80K a year went from being able to pretty much have their choice in where they rented to being relegated to junky apartments in bad neighborhoods or areas with big swaths of nothing. Single people who made 35-40K a year doing semi-professional jobs went from able to afford modest 1 bedroom apartments to living in 10x10 rooms with roommates with shared bathrooms and paying more than they did for the 1 bedroom apartment for the privledge. The people who were already in the "share a 2-3 bedroom with roommates" class are barely hanging on.

The feeling I'm starting to get from natives and long-termers is "I'm done with this place." I don't blame them, and if we hadn't bought a reasonably priced place when we had a chance, I would join them. Honestly, once it's paid down a bit more, joining them doesn't seem like a terrible idea.
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Old 08-01-2016, 10:52 AM
SQL
 
Location: The State of Delusion - Colorado
1,337 posts, read 948,822 times
Reputation: 1492
Quote:
Originally Posted by blackmet View Post
Sorry. You're moving to an overpriced, overrated city.

It happened quickly too...

In the span of maybe 2-3 years, couples and families making 60-80K a year went from being able to pretty much have their choice in where they rented to being relegated to junky apartments in bad neighborhoods or areas with big swaths of nothing. Single people who made 35-40K a year doing semi-professional jobs went from able to afford modest 1 bedroom apartments to living in 10x10 rooms with roommates with shared bathrooms and paying more than they did for the 1 bedroom apartment for the privledge. The people who were already in the "share a 2-3 bedroom with roommates" class are barely hanging on.

The feeling I'm starting to get from natives and long-termers is "I'm done with this place." I don't blame them, and if we hadn't bought a reasonably priced place when we had a chance, I would join them. Honestly, once it's paid down a bit more, joining them doesn't seem like a terrible idea.
Pretty much this. My GF, a high school science teacher in one of the wealthiest counties in Colorado, cannot afford to live on her own. She was making more at a high-risk, impoverished district in Dallas. Most Millennials I talk to cannot afford their first home here. Most are bunking up with several roommates just to be able to live and work here. The local salaries have not kept up with COL at all. Essentially, you're screwed if you're working for a local company, who cannot seem to pay the same rates as those people moving from out of state.

My co-worker has been looking for homes well outside of the Denver Metro area (Milliken). She says the vast majority of houses are going for $350k+ all the way out there. You will pay well over a quarter of a millions dollars for a home that is nearly an hour away from Denver and has minimal amenities. You read that correctly. That is insane!

The housing market is absolutely absurd and out of control. Colorado has essentially become California Lite, and will ultimately reach the same level, if not surpass it in terms of housing costs. I imagine that there will eventually be a flood of young people leaving this region as it continues to be out of most people's price ranges. My GF are already planning our next move. We'll probably end up heading back to the Midwest (where I'm from), or somewhere in Texas (she is from Dallas). Boise was another locale that popped up, because of its similarities with Denver climate. I was just at a BBQ this weekend with a large group of Millennials, and one of the main talking points that evening was how unaffordable it is to live here. Many of them were talking about leaving or going back to where they grew up. I can't blame them for not wanting to live somewhere they cannot afford, despite being college educated and working in "white-collar" jobs.
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Old 08-01-2016, 11:03 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
760 posts, read 681,165 times
Reputation: 1494
^ I don't think we will see a population decrease though for at least a decade.

Too many people want to live here. According to all of these polls and surveys, Denver has become one of the most desirable places to live in the country right now, even more so than NYC, LA, Chicago, etc. Problem is that 30K new people in a place like NYC is no problem and is just a ripple. But when you add 30K new people to a city like Denver (or Portland and Seattle), it has major impacts and becomes very noticeable.

People will live here for a year or two just enough to have their fun, move back home once they want to actually buy a house or get married, and become replaced by even more college grads who just want to have some fun. I see Denver becoming mostly temporary/transients/college aged, and homes becoming even more owned by mostly investors who will just rent it out.

My prediction is that Denver will continue to grow as long as there are more expensive and crowded cities in the country.
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Old 08-01-2016, 11:12 AM
SQL
 
Location: The State of Delusion - Colorado
1,337 posts, read 948,822 times
Reputation: 1492
Quote:
Originally Posted by MN_Ski View Post
People will live here for a year or two just enough to have their fun, move back home once they want to actually buy a house or get married, and become replaced by even more college grads who just want to have some fun. I see Denver becoming mostly temporary/transients/college aged, and homes becoming even more owned by mostly investors who will just rent it out.
Valid. I agree with you on this. My GF moved here because she wanted to ski. But I think the sheer enjoyment and novelty of that will wear off eventually for her. Not that she won't enjoy it in the future. But it's like when you first move here and the mountains are right there and it's very exciting for you to see them each day. I felt that way the first couple of years living here. Now, I see them and it's whatever.

We had a serious convo this past weekend about spending more time up in Michigan, where I'm from, so that she could get a feel for whether she'd like it. She seemed pretty open to it, just so long as we could live close to a lake. I told her that wouldn't be a problem. If that doesn't work out, we are considering various cities in Texas, including Austin, Dallas, or San Antonio. If we can find something relatively affordable, maybe Portland, OR and surrounding areas.

I think you're right about Denver becoming a temporary "fun" place for transients post-college. Most Millennials I know who've been here for a few years are already talking about moving back closer to their families now that they are settling in their lives and starting families. That, and finding somewhere they can actually afford a home.
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