Denver - is it worth the COL? (Boulder, Castle Rock: how much, new home)

[sailelsa]

I don't think the COL is bad here in Denver Metro (in Denver proper yes, but the greater area - not so bad). I think you could make it on $55K per year, however it would be helpful if maybe your wife could do a small stay at home business for extra money. The real estate taxes are low, although state sales tax is a little high - don't know what it is in Vegas though. Fresh veggies and fruit may be slightly higher than Vegas (as it is closer to California and Arizona farms), but not to a noticeable degree. Car/home insurance is a bit more - (maybe due to the hail storms here). Gas is considerably less - which is nice since that is a weekly expense. Heating bills are surprisingly low - and there is virtually no need for AC (especially if you are used to the heat in Vegas). Overall, I think the COL is very fair here (other than housing). And, if you are more of an outdoorsy person than a go out drinking person, then I think you will find it affordable.

If you are interested in other options that are cooler in the summer, but not colder than Denver and have a lower cost of living - Albuquerque would probably fit that bill.

[Pesare]

I agree with the above poster that $55K can be sufficient to live in Denver depending on your expectations.
You would need to calculate your take home pay which would be $40K after all taxes are taken out assuming you don't have any big deductions.
Salary Paycheck Calculator | Take Home Pay Calculator | Paycheck Calculator

So if the take home pay is $40K you aren't going to buy a condo or SFH on that. That leaves you with a budget of $1120 for rent if you spend 33% of your net pay on rent.

That limits you to one bedroom apartments or old 2 bedroom apartments in the suburbs i.e. Aurora, Westminster, Brighton, but this leaves you with enough money each month to do other activities or save.

[Denver303TJC]

Originally Posted by caverunner17

The weather, lack of humidity, mild winters, and access to the outdoors trumps everything.

Correction: The weather, lack of humidity, mild winters, and access to the outdoors builds a wall on everything!!

[wilberry]

Left Denver in 94 with no income , have been back to visit with average income , can't afford to live in a box in Colorado unless it is in Limon , asked HR for transfer info , no cost of living increase , pay taxes and die was their answer . Greed has made Colorado what it is .

[Timmyy]

Originally Posted by wilberry

Left Denver in 94 with no income , have been back to visit with average income , can't afford to live in a box in Colorado unless it is in Limon , asked HR for transfer info , no cost of living increase , pay taxes and die was their answer . Greed has made Colorado what it is .

Is it only greed or the fact that a ton of people moved here?

[Gaylord_Focker]

Is there any city where you get to live in the best, walkable neighborhood for 350k? GMAB.

[Gaylord_Focker]

Originally Posted by guyatwork37

The suburbs. Highlands Ranch, Littleton, Centennial, Parker, castle Rock, etc. you can find 3/2 hones for 350k easy. Looking at one of the most expensive neighborhoods and saying denver is impossibly expensive is like looking at Malibu, CA and assuming every home in LA costs 6 million minimum.

Originally Posted by Hschlick84

Denver sprawl? LOL, visit Phoenix, Houston and Dallas. That's real sprawl compared to Denver.

Originally Posted by David Aguilar

Aren't we talking $35K income, and not $35K house? Nobody is buying much of anything in Metro Denver with a $35K income.

I show over 8,000 listings in metro Detroit sub $150K. I see over 1500 listings in metro Phoenix. Over 6000 in Atlanta. ~150 in metro Denver (most of these are 1 bed condos).

You listed DC. DC is quite a bit more expensive than Denver.

Let's remove the ghetto and 1 brs out of the equation.

[N610DL]

"- Northeast - too cold, snowy and gloomy.
- Southeast - too hot, humid, just not a fan of the southeast area.
- Midwest - boring, average, also places you in Tornado Alley.
- West coast is too expensive and doesn't have 4 seasons.
- East coast has hurricane weather and humidity. Any of the cities worth living in that has jobs are usually too expensive or too high in crime.
- Northwest (aka Portland and Seattle) is too rainy/gloomy, not much snow, and expensive.
- Southwest is where we're at now and it's too hot and generally lacks 4 seasons.
- Far north - Cold, there's nothing up there. Lack of jobs/things to do/etc."

I agree with all of this, as someone who grew up in the Northeast. Northeast winters are much worse than Denver, IMHO. There are 60-70 degree days in January and sometimes 80+ degree days in February / March in Denver. It's pleasant, but there is the occasional snow drop in May which is kind of annoying but par for the course.

Median income in Denver is pretty high in the 60K range, but the rent prices are ridiculous. Still better to buy than rent at this point.

[Gaylord_Focker]

Originally Posted by Sunderpig2

LOL No way! Missouri has deep and dense woods, lots of green and lushness, all due to the moisture. Whether you like or dislike the climate and humidity differences is not the point. The scenery is radically different. "Missouri With Mountains" would be more like parts of Oregon, Washington, and maybe Virginia, for example.

Sure, but those states have great, liberal cities and open minds. Missouri is essentially Arkansas/Texas north.

[grad_student200]

Originally Posted by mrbrightside03

This might be a difficult question for you guys to answer so bear with me. But I'm curious to hear your thoughts.

(Also, I know I've recently started a couple other threads in the past week so I do apologize.)

We are a young family with a toddler looking for a place to call home. Biggest thing for us right now is we want to move somewhere that has four seasons. We're currently in Las Vegas and the heat here is just too much.

We've been researching places to live in the entire country and keep coming back to Denver.

I realize I'm painting with a very broad brush here, but my general thoughts as to why Denver is more ideal for us vs anywhere else in the US are:

- Northeast - too cold, snowy and gloomy.
- Southeast - too hot, humid, just not a fan of the southeast area.
- Midwest - boring, average, also places you in Tornado Alley.
- West coast is too expensive and doesn't have 4 seasons.
- East coast has hurricane weather and humidity. Any of the cities worth living in that has jobs are usually too expensive or too high in crime.
- Northwest (aka Portland and Seattle) is too rainy/gloomy, not much snow, and expensive.
- Southwest is where we're at now and it's too hot and generally lacks 4 seasons.
- Far north - Cold, there's nothing up there. Lack of jobs/things to do/etc.

So that trims out a lot of the US and leaves Denver right there in the middle.

What we find attractive about Denver is:
- The scenery/location. The Rocky Mountains are in your back yard! I think the flat plains are beautiful as well.
- The climate. Denver has 4 seasons and lots of weather! We miss having weather. And it's generally sunny and DRY, has milder winters than the northeast.
- There is a pretty good tech scene. So, job opportunities.
- Hiking. Lots of hiking/trails/parks for the kid, etc.
- Professional Sports.
- It's a large city so lots of options for shopping, restaurants, etc. as opposed to a smaller city.
- Concerts at Red Rocks.
- Low in crime. Seems like a nice place to raise a family. Has culture.

Pretty much the only thing that scares us about Denver is the cost of housing. We're nowhere near ready to even begin thinking about buying but we'd like to eventually. And from what I hear, I don't know how we'd EVER find the money to buy a house around Denver on a single-income (wife stays at home).

So for now and for awhile, we'd be renting. I would really wanna be close to my job but $$$ of renting might push us further into the burbs, which is fine. But then you have the commute.

Do you think it's worth the COL for us to live in Denver?
Would you move here again?
What keeps you from leaving?

Curious to hear everyone's thoughts. Thanks!

At first glance, the cost-of-living is reasonable in Denver with great weather. I grew up in the Az desert, went to college in the freezing midwest, and lived in Florida for about 14 years. By comparison to all those places, Denver and Boulder have the ideal four seasons. It snows but not in a horrifying persistent way like Northern Indiana and the "Lake Effect Snow" from the Great Lakes. Denver does not get extremely hot like Phoenix or Tucson. It is not hot and humid like Tallahassee or Miami. The Rocky Mountains are glorious. But what is the "catch"?

The catches are demographic limitations and the unpredictable job market. I worked in Boulder and Denver in the late 1990s when the job market was inundated with many options. I typically started a job and worked on it for 10-13 months. I usually ran into corporate politics and quit within a year or a little longer. Then I would get a much higher paying job and promotion. I went from a $16/hr job in 1998 as an entry level tester in Boulder to an $80,000/yr job as a test manager at a startup by late 2000.

But it all crashed in 2001 with the "dot com bust" and stock market crash. The 911 attacks also impacted engineering companies because the airports and travel became restricted, so many companies went on hiring freezes. By the spring of 2002 I was just doing harsh construction labor and night stocking at "Labor Ready" (LOL). Then I got a new job in Florida and stayed until 2017. I witnessed horrible layoffs when I was in Denver back then. It was "up" and "down" for the job market.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZUw8LYOQ-g

I laugh at the scene at the end of "Office Space" when Peter is doing construction labor after having been a software developer. It reminds me of 2002. I went on a rapid "ascent" up the career ladder in Denver and Boulder from 1998-2001 then it just all crashed in 2002. I became a minimum wage day labor worker in the spring of 2002 after making $80,000/yr in 2001 as a software test manager. It was bizarre.
That forced me to move to FL. Interestingly, I met many engineers from Colorado who did the same. The job market drove them out. Beware of the "highs" and "lows" of the engineering economy in Denver.

The only good thing about that hard labor of 2002 was the extreme exercise and physical conditioning - my athletic peak (LOL) - making "bucks and working outside".

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wczkA_cULYk