Denver vs. desert Southwest cities (Boulder, Grand Junction: mortgage, environment, landscaping)

[vegaspilgrim]

Took a quick trip back home to Denver last weekend, now I'm back here in Phoenix. Friday and Saturday were gorgeous, totally dry, warm weather, in the 70s! Sunday was snowing all day-- and it was a wet, slushy snow, not the dry powdery snow I like. Even though I've been going back and forth between Denver and Phoenix dozens of times over the last four years, and I grew up there, lived there for the first 18 years of my life, each time I come back to Denver it feels different to me. I still think Denver is the better city and has more to offer when it comes to the actual city stuff (better downtown, more diverse economy, dozens of neighborhood business districts where you can walk around, more and better city parks, museums, libraries, theater, festivals, light rail system, etc). I don't mind the cold temperatures, anything over 15 degrees I can handle just fine, and I actually like snow (more so when it's the "dry" powdery version). Denver is a good city, it's doing a lot of things right, and it has a lot going for it. I've been trying to convince myself that I should move back to my hometown and that it's the perfect place for me. And there's a good chance I'll come back to live permanently. But after going back and forth I'm starting to realize that I may actually prefer Phoenix and the desert southwest region in certain ways.

Both Denver and Phoenix, and the high plains and Sonoran desert regions they respectively represent, are acquired tastes. What really made me realize this was when I took a drive up to Boulder on Saturday. It was warm outside, even a little hot, sunny, beautiful weather, and no snow on the ground at that time. But because there was no layer of snow covering the ground, what really hit me was the drab look of the high plains environment that Denver and Boulder is built on. Especially evident on the hill between Broomfield and Boulder, the yellow-brown dry/dead/dormant prairie grass is everywhere, like a blanket. The mountain view is pretty, especially at sunrise and the early morning, and from the SE part of town (which has the best mountain views, btw) it looks like a virtual wall of blue. When you actually go in the mountains, it's a winter wonderland of green and white, just like the Colorado license plate. But then when you come back down and look east, with no mountain view, the landscape is bleak and drab. In the summer, Denver looks like a sea of green, with the tree canopy. But from October until April, it looks like a colorless sea of twigs.

There's something about the desert southwest, especially in the basin and range, not only the wide open desert, but even the cities in the SW, that excites my senses in way that Denver doesn't. The three cities in the region I'm most familiar with are Phoenix, Tucson, and Las Vegas and I've also been to Albuquerque and Santa Fe (not really desert) a few times. When it comes to all the important criteria, Denver ranks better than all these cities. When it comes to having 4 seasons and the most comfortable summers, Denver is without a doubt the best one to be in (although even Denver's summers can be scorching hot). These cities have even less vegetation than Denver, and yet somehow they seem even more colorful to me. Perhaps less is more? Within Colorado, I find the west slope much more visually enticing and colorful, true to the state "Welcome to Colorful Colorado" mascot than the Front Range. I've tried for years to really "get into" the great plains, but it just doesn't "wow" me. Colorado National Monument around Grand Junction and the red rock country of Utah does. Durango is probably my favorite small town in Colorado. Ironically, Durango is closer to Albuquerque, and possibly even Phoenix, than it is to Denver.

It took me several years to realize this, but I personally find the architecture of the built environment in Phoenix more appealing (especially the old school 1 story slump block ranch homes built in the '50s, '60s, and '70s, with front and back porch overhangs, before the tile and stucco roof craze of the '90s). Homes in Denver seem like they're either tiny, historic homes built 100 years ago, cute, but ridiculously small and sized like shacks, or ugly, cheap, big boxes with vinyl siding. The ranch homes you see in Phoenix are sized just right IMO, not too big, not too small. Denver has one-story ranch homes built in the 50s too, but for some reason, they don't look quite the same as the ones I see in Phoenix. A lot of other subtle differences, too, things like the types of fencing, landscaping, the look of the strip malls, etc, give each place a very different look. A lot of suble cultural differences too, between Denver and desert southwest cities. Phoenix at least is an interesting mix of midwesterners, Californians, Mexican Americans, Mormons, and immigrants (both legal and illegal) straight from Mexico. Despite the retiree stereotype, most of Phoenix feels fairly young, even younger than Denver.

Even though southwest cities are sprawling, they are actually very packed in, and layed out in a 1x1 mile grid. Take a look at Las Vegas, for example. Las Vegas is often criticized for sprawl, but you can drive from the center of the strip to the outer edges of town in about 25 minutes and be completed out of town with an abrupt edge of development, and be in the middle of nowhere in wide open desert country. To get that feeling in Denver, you really have to drive north all the way to Wyoming. Going out east doesn't feel very "wide open" to me, strangely, it feels claustrophobic; high barren plains, but you can only see a few miles to the horizon out there.

Rambling post, I know. I wish there was a city that combined the climate of Santa Fe, NM, the scenery and desert vegetation of Tucson, the building styles, youthfulness, and cultural mix of Phoenix, the glamor, action and entertainment, of Las Vegas, the food of Albuquerque, with the downtown, civic spirit, and cultural amenities of Denver. That place doesn't exist of course. But does anyone else here love the desert southwest, but lives in Denver?

[tfox]

Not to take anything away from Denver, but I also like the desert southwest. The national parks in southeastern Utah, Moab, Monument Valley, the Grand Canyon, Santa Fe. At least as a place to visit. It's pretty and awe-inspiring.

I think what you're figuring out, after spending a while loathing Phoenix, is that there's actually a lot to appreciate about the area, much as there is about Denver. I think every natural environment has much to appreciate, if taken on its own terms. Even our own great plains.

There's scarcely a place on earth that doesn't offer something for the soul. Of course that goes for all the places God made -- that is, the natural geography. As creators, we humans offer both the capability to draw inspiration, at our finest, or at our worst, to degrade the landscape much like graffiti on a building. Our cities, usually, are a mix of both -- and I think that holds true for most places.

city-data is something of the forum of the discontent. We restless Americans seek to find our "perfect place" elsewhere -- and there's nothing wrong with that -- I think that life is to be experienced and a there's nothing like a great journey in life to do that On the other hand, I appreciate the wisdom of one of our best posters: livecontent, when he often writes of the importance of appreciating the small things in your surroundings. I'm sure he'd agree that true happiness doesn't involve finding that "perfect" place, but rather being inspired by your surroundings, wherever that may be, and finding and enjoying those things.

[bhcompy]

regarding the housing design and such.. im going to miss the stucco houses, spanish style villas, and stone or block walls that many properties in the southwest have when i move from so cal to denver.

i could do without the vinyl/wood siding and leaning wood fences, but those materials are cheaper/easier and there arent nearly as many termite problems in denver as there are in nm, az, and ca

ive never seen denver in the spring, so hopefully next time i come to check out houses there will be flowers and grass rather than brown and snow

[vegaspilgrim]

Originally Posted by tfox

city-data is something of the forum of the discontent. We restless Americans seek to find our "perfect place" elsewhere -- and there's nothing wrong with that -- I think that life is to be experienced and a there's nothing like a great journey in life to do that On the other hand, I appreciate the wisdom of one of our best posters: livecontent, when he often writes of the importance of appreciating the small things in your surroundings. I'm sure he'd agree that true happiness doesn't involve finding that "perfect" place, but rather being inspired by your surroundings, wherever that may be, and finding and enjoying those things.

Excellent point, tfox! There definitely is no perfect place. Or perhaps, as I said on another thread, Denver is the right place for me, but now isn't the right time for me to be there.

[Katiana]

Originally Posted by bhcompy

regarding the housing design and such.. im going to miss the stucco houses, spanish style villas, and stone or block walls that many properties in the southwest have when i move from so cal to denver.

i could do without the vinyl/wood siding and leaning wood fences, but those materials are cheaper/easier and there arent nearly as many termite problems in denver as there are in nm, az, and ca

ive never seen denver in the spring, so hopefully next time i come to check out houses there will be flowers and grass rather than brown and snow

I think I discussed this before, but vinyl siding is not used much, if at all, in the metro area. Most houses have wood siding. There are some Spanish-style and stucco homes here, though there are a lot more diverse styles here. CU has a lot of red-tile roofs and Spanish style architecture.

Spring in Denver is lovely, though the weather is often cool and rainy. it's green and the fruit trees are in bloom.

[DenverAztec]

I love Phoenix in the Winter and Denver in the Summer. Winter in Denver is much easier to handle then Summer in Phoenix. I thought I was going to die there last summer on my three business trips. Other then the weather, I find Denver more architecturally and artistically sound then Phoenix and even Scottsdale. We are an old city with almost every type or architectural style contained in one city then anything west of the Mississippi, sans San Francisco. Phoenix is young but very nomadic. Good place for your first home and even to raise a child but nothing there really ties the city together as citizens and no real festival type activities. New Mexico had more public events to entice its citizens to come together. Phoenicians love their privacy and to continually move further away from each other. Great escapes to Sedona and Jerome close by and overall folks are friendly there. I am more of a city person and I don't get that "city" feel in Phoenix as much as I do in Denver, yet it is not too much like it would be in Chicago or NYC. I am not a mall person but like to know that should I need something, Cherry Creek is near by and I don't have to travel to Scottsdale or the Biltmore Fashion Square to get it. Love the food better in Phoenix on a Mexican/Southwest appeal, but nothing really beyond that. Had Dim Sum here on Federal and Tejon Saturday and loved it, can't find that in Phoenix. Both are growing and are good choices, it is all a matter of what appeals to you. Since I travel often with my job, I get a real feel for many cities and still find Denver the most appealing. No matter what you choose, you can always change your mind if you don't plant your roots too deep (mortgages or a significant other who won't move). As always, best wishes!

Denver Aztec

[Patrick754]

Originally Posted by DenverAztec

Had Dim Sum here on Federal and Tejon Saturday and loved it, can't find that in Phoenix.

There's great Dim Sum at the Golden Buddha at the Chinese cultural center. Check it out next time you are in PHX.

[Tim Rankin]

Great post vegaspilgrim. If there was a city like the one you imagine in the last paragraph, I would be there!

I've always been a fan of Denver, and could easily see myself living there.

Although I'm quite happy in Albuquerque, there are times I miss the big-city vibe that Denver offers, and the hauntingly, beautiful Sonoran landscapes of southern Ariz.