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Old 04-03-2017, 10:58 PM
 
Location: Washington Park, Denver
6,939 posts, read 6,548,353 times
Reputation: 7426

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Quote:
Originally Posted by twowilldo View Post
OMG SkyDog, it isn't a straight face, it's a disgusted face.

I have to travel all over the place to work contracts so I see/drive in all of it. The trains are full going into downtown in morning and still the traffic on the highway is nuts coming up out of the south and the opposite is true at end of day too. I-70 ski traffic has evolved into ridiculous traffic jams now on summer mornings on the weekends and opposite coming back down the hill... used to just be the ski traffic... and that has been true since the 70s. Same goes for 40 over Berthoud. Turnpike westbound in the morning, east at end of day. Yeah, they added a lane that costs $4.25 to drive on, peak time, one-way to downtown from Federal... so for $8.50 per day you can take advantage of it. Not everyone can afford to pay $170 per month to Plenary. They call them Lexus lanes for a reason. It takes almost 15 minutes to go from RMMA's east exit north into old Broomfield and they just improved one bridge. Southbound seems to be better. DOT just widened 225 and still not enough, it still backs up from about 6th to Iliff (evening) and then from Parker to 25 (morning). T-Rex is a bloody mess in the morning commute and a mess for the evening commute. Takes me at least an hour and 20 mins. to go from Belleview to the Wads exit on 36 when I have to work down there. When I have to wait for the third Flatiron Flyer bus at Broomfield to get on to go to Union Station and that's even before getting on the E train, that's a problem. Don't get me started on 270... ugh.

They build the stuff true... but they aren't keeping up with the influx, they aren't looking far enough ahead. The growth planning is just not smart at all. And it's not just the roads... the water supply is a big one. You've lived here, you know that water has been limited and it will happen again only this time there are a whole lot more people competing for the same resources.

I am not holding out for whatever better improvement to 70 maybe-might happen, though I agree it needs it for sure. The plans I saw made me wonder what is going to happen to all that traffic in the meanwhile.

Yeah, made us absolutely sick when we saw those tire tracks up there. People need to do a better job of protecting what they have or else they will lose it.
I too travel all over. I'm going on 12 straight weeks of travel right now to D.C., Vegas, STL, New Orleans, Chicago, San Diego, and a few others I can't seem to remember right now.

I'm glad that you acknowledge that there are full trains because doing so means you realize that there have been massive infrastructure improvements and they are being utilized.

As for not wanting to pay for the toll lanes, that's fine! I hope you understand that every person who does is doing everyone in the other lanes a favor by removing a vehicle from the regular lanes which would otherwise be there.

Have you driven in Chicago recently? How about Southern California? They both have massive highway infrastructure compared to Denver and the traffic is still worse. Hell, the traffic in Vegas this afternoon was miserable.

I'm not sure what panacea you're hoping for, but traffic is a symptom of growth. It's unavoidable. Denver isn't worse than most other places in this regard.

Staying the same isn't an option. You're either growing or declining. I would rather live in a growing, vibrant city than one in decline. I've visited plenty of those as well. Growth comes with growing pains. I wish my commute to the mountains was the same as it was in the early 90s. I don't wish Denver was the same city it was then. I realize that I can't have my cake and eat it too. Neither can anyone else.

All my travel has led me to another conclusion: Denver is still a pretty special place.
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Old 04-04-2017, 08:52 AM
 
Location: In The Thin Air
12,279 posts, read 8,081,631 times
Reputation: 8917
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyDog77 View Post
I too travel all over. I'm going on 12 straight weeks of travel right now to D.C., Vegas, STL, New Orleans, Chicago, San Diego, and a few others I can't seem to remember right now.

I'm glad that you acknowledge that there are full trains because doing so means you realize that there have been massive infrastructure improvements and they are being utilized.

As for not wanting to pay for the toll lanes, that's fine! I hope you understand that every person who does is doing everyone in the other lanes a favor by removing a vehicle from the regular lanes which would otherwise be there.

Have you driven in Chicago recently? How about Southern California? They both have massive highway infrastructure compared to Denver and the traffic is still worse. Hell, the traffic in Vegas this afternoon was miserable.

I'm not sure what panacea you're hoping for, but traffic is a symptom of growth. It's unavoidable. Denver isn't worse than most other places in this regard.

Staying the same isn't an option. You're either growing or declining. I would rather live in a growing, vibrant city than one in decline. I've visited plenty of those as well. Growth comes with growing pains. I wish my commute to the mountains was the same as it was in the early 90s. I don't wish Denver was the same city it was then. I realize that I can't have my cake and eat it too. Neither can anyone else.

All my travel has led me to another conclusion: Denver is still a pretty special place.
I prefer your glass half full look at things.

I still chuckle when people complain about traffic here. Yes, it has gotten worse but it is still nothing to California.
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Old 04-04-2017, 09:11 AM
 
Location: 26°N x 82°W
538 posts, read 284,043 times
Reputation: 898
Quote:
Originally Posted by SkyDog77 View Post
I too travel all over. I'm going on 12 straight weeks of travel right now to D.C., Vegas, STL, New Orleans, Chicago, San Diego, and a few others I can't seem to remember right now.

I'm glad that you acknowledge that there are full trains because doing so means you realize that there have been massive infrastructure improvements and they are being utilized.

As for not wanting to pay for the toll lanes, that's fine! I hope you understand that every person who does is doing everyone in the other lanes a favor by removing a vehicle from the regular lanes which would otherwise be there.

Have you driven in Chicago recently? How about Southern California? They both have massive highway infrastructure compared to Denver and the traffic is still worse. Hell, the traffic in Vegas this afternoon was miserable.

I'm not sure what panacea you're hoping for, but traffic is a symptom of growth. It's unavoidable. Denver isn't worse than most other places in this regard.

Staying the same isn't an option. You're either growing or declining. I would rather live in a growing, vibrant city than one in decline. I've visited plenty of those as well. Growth comes with growing pains. I wish my commute to the mountains was the same as it was in the early 90s. I don't wish Denver was the same city it was then. I realize that I can't have my cake and eat it too. Neither can anyone else.

All my travel has led me to another conclusion: Denver is still a pretty special place.
I only used the (free) toll lanes when car pooling (which doesn't happen anymore since I started working for myself as a contractor). That new lane has only a handful of people using it along 36 so it isn't really impacting the other lanes much, they are going to crawl no matter what.

I did a shoot in SoCal last December and wow the traffic was astounding. I had to be on location and set up before sunrise so I'd leave the hotel very early in the a.m. (around 3:30-4-ish) in Murrieta and head toward Temecula and the interstate was already starting to pile on. Everyone has to live so far away from LA ad SD to find housing they can afford.

All good points SkyDog, in fact my spouse says the same as you. Better to be growing and not decaying. I get that. We have a rare gem in this spot in a really good location and since the market is so hot due to the area's popularity, that will (hopefully) help bring us a buyer when we list the house soon.

I just know the Colorado I remember growing up has morphed and become crowded enough (Front Range) that there is no longer a reason to want to stay. We've looked at land down near Nucla/Naturita, also parts along the Western Slope and decided if we are going to do it than just cut ties completely. It is a special place for sure, always will be to me, this has been the only place I've ever lived. We both recognize that it is time to move on and try something else in life, quieter and that has already been built out... so no unpleasant surprises.
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Old 04-04-2017, 09:53 AM
 
1,254 posts, read 926,056 times
Reputation: 1438
I've lived in many places and the common complaints are common everywhere.

Transplants, Traffic, etc.....Houston, nobody is from there same with ATL.

CO is really nice. It's pretty safe, nice weather, outdoor activities....but the housing situation is pretty bad. Ive been in my house for 5 years and I could make bank selling it but there is not much else I can buy with that. I prefer space and privacy and here they just pack in the houses. Other areas in the country do it, but they dont have split rail fences so everyone can see what you're doing in your yard. It's pretty annoying.
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Old 04-04-2017, 11:14 AM
 
Location: Colorado Springs
3,078 posts, read 2,111,256 times
Reputation: 3582
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammy87 View Post
I've lived in many places and the common complaints are common everywhere.

Transplants, Traffic, etc.....Houston, nobody is from there same with ATL.
That's what I've always suspected.

The Rocky Mtn west has always had a boom/bust cycle, or in the case of Colorado, a boom/plateau cycle. What is the number of residents that we should be planning for? It took 70 years to reach a million. We are now adding almost a million every decade. At what number do we reach a tip over point against the natural environment? How do you reconcile the urban landscape and population demands of metro Denver against the rural population of the rest of the state and water rights of the western slope? How much of the rest of the state’s growth is compromised to help promote growth in Denver and its primary recreational pathways? These have always been issues in the Colorado I have known. I don't see them ever changing as hot button points.

I was recently helping my oldest daughter with a history assignment. It was an amusing reminder to look through Colorado history over the past 100 years and see similar concerns and push back on issues of growth as a part of our local culture. One I really had to laugh at was all the locals getting tweaked about Roosevelt creating national parks that set aside millions of acres in the west and how so many people protested it was an invasion of individual rights that were going to impede growth of industry and make people destitute because of their inability to find work. One does not have to look far to find other examples that are equally as comical now. No doubt, our great grand children will find these current discussions amusing at some point.
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Old 04-04-2017, 11:33 AM
 
Location: Denver, CO
760 posts, read 588,391 times
Reputation: 1482
Growth doesn't bother me if it's at least planned for. What bugs me a bit is how the state seems to doing anything they can to bring people and businesses into the state, while not doing enough to address the COL and housing problems.

This is one of the reasons why I don't get Boulder. They are all about environmental protection and eco friendly laws...yet they keep adding thousands of jobs every year while adding no housing. It's like they forgot how much of an impact sprawling suburbs, and insane amounts of daily commuter traffic has on the enviroment. Boulder needs to be accountable for it's daily commuter traffic, and stop passing off it's housing problem to the surrounding cities.
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Old 04-04-2017, 01:00 PM
 
1,254 posts, read 926,056 times
Reputation: 1438
Quote:
Originally Posted by MN_Ski View Post
Growth doesn't bother me if it's at least planned for. What bugs me a bit is how the state seems to doing anything they can to bring people and businesses into the state, while not doing enough to address the COL and housing problems.

This is one of the reasons why I don't get Boulder. They are all about environmental protection and eco friendly laws...yet they keep adding thousands of jobs every year while adding no housing. It's like they forgot how much of an impact sprawling suburbs, and insane amounts of daily commuter traffic has on the enviroment. Boulder needs to be accountable for it's daily commuter traffic, and stop passing off it's housing problem to the surrounding cities.
It's not the gov't job to determine value in a particular industry. Housing is simply supply and demand.
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Old 04-04-2017, 01:10 PM
 
Location: Colorado
722 posts, read 509,344 times
Reputation: 1043
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammy87 View Post
I've lived in many places and the common complaints are common everywhere.

Transplants, Traffic, etc.....Houston, nobody is from there same with ATL.

CO is really nice. It's pretty safe, nice weather, outdoor activities....but the housing situation is pretty bad. Ive been in my house for 5 years and I could make bank selling it but there is not much else I can buy with that. I prefer space and privacy and here they just pack in the houses. Other areas in the country do it, but they dont have split rail fences so everyone can see what you're doing in your yard. It's pretty annoying.
Being a transplant myself I do have to ask what is up with the split rail fencing?! I also agree it's very annoying and it's all over North CoS and Monument as well.
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Old 04-04-2017, 01:18 PM
 
20,899 posts, read 39,168,910 times
Reputation: 19184
Quote:
Originally Posted by sammy87 View Post
It's not the gov't job to determine value in a particular industry. Housing is simply supply and demand.
Largely true, but, tax policies tend to skew the market place and impact the dynamics of supply and demand.

The itemized deduction for mortgage interest is intent to increase home ownership with the aim of stabilizing families and communities. But IMO it prods people to buy and finance homes which creates nice profits for mortgage bankers. One of the larger lobbies in Washington is the banking lobby.

Other tax deductions for buying SFHs and putting them in the rental market ratchets up demand for tax shelters and income with parallel increases in home prices which inflates the cost of housing beyond the levels that many can afford. This is where supply and demand really play hell with us as excess dollars looking for investments chase a finite supply of housing, thus demand-based inflation in home prices. Our tax policies are messing with what should be a free market devoid of tax gimmicks.

If we took all tax considerations out of SFHs then "investors" would sell off millions of homes and prices would plummet back to more affordable levels. I might extend this to THs as well and only leave tax considerations available to true rental communities like large complexes of garden apartments. Not gonna happen, the housing rackets will continue to make home ownership ever more impossible for millions of Americans.
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Old 04-04-2017, 01:32 PM
 
1,254 posts, read 926,056 times
Reputation: 1438
Quote:
Originally Posted by DoodlemomCoS View Post
Being a transplant myself I do have to ask what is up with the split rail fencing?! I also agree it's very annoying and it's all over North CoS and Monument as well.
Yeah the everyones dogs see everything all start barking which is fine, but then you have ppl complain about the dogs barking......well what do you expect? What was the saying...tall fences make good neighbors?
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