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If a person wants to fall into a wormhole and get a glimpse of the Colorado of 30 years ago, go spend some time in Craig.
I left there nearly 25 years ago and other than some new houses, a new hospital, and a Wal-Mart it still looks pretty much the same as it did when I left. The schools are dreadful, drug and alcohol use is through the roof, and the town's economy is nearly completely dependent on the power plant and the coal mines that support it.
I spent a couple days near there 25 years ago and thought it was a depressing place despite being among some pretty hillsides. The gambel oak were ablaze when I went, and the small rounded hills everywhere reminded me a little bit of New England. But the town looked down in the dumps, alright.
I also remember moving to the Denver area when it was in a recession, about 30 yrs ago. Vacant strip malls with boarded-up windows all over the place. Two months free rent as renter incentive, or zero-interest zero-down $300/mo condos as buyer incentive, HUD homes galore. Fast and easy drives to downtown. The people who still lived in the area seemed to mostly come from NE and KS, and they were polite, friendly, down-to-earth people. NOT entitled, complainy, throw-my-money-around demanding jerks like what you get when a place gets expensive and is "a hot market."
Lots of growth, low COL, and beautiful surroundings do not go together. It's like the old engineering saw: Lighter, stronger, cheaper: Pick two.
If a person wants to fall into a wormhole and get a glimpse of the Colorado of 30 years ago, go spend some time in Craig.
I left there nearly 25 years ago and other than some new houses, a new hospital, and a Wal-Mart it still looks pretty much the same as it did when I left. The schools are dreadful, drug and alcohol use is through the roof, and the town's economy is nearly completely dependent on the power plant and the coal mines that support it.
If you want to go back even further than that, go to Springfield in SE CO (actually dont). Like something out of "No Country for Old Men".
I was there last year while hunting and could not believe I lived in the same state. Pretty surroundings in a desolate sort of way, but utterly depressing town.
If you want to go back even further than that, go to Springfield in SE CO (actually dont). Like something out of "No Country for Old Men".
I was there last year while hunting and could not believe I lived in the same state. Pretty surroundings in a desolate sort of way, but utterly depressing town.
Love that movie. It does seem really depressing to live in a place that desolate.
Chiming in as I too have lived in this state all my lifetime, family here before me as well. A few observations and responses to OP's original post in regard to the Front Range area and parts close by...
Let me start by saying I don't disrespect anyone that chooses to come here to live, everyone has a right to move/live where ever they would like. What I don't like is that the growth doesn't seem to be well-planned or responsible, both the fault of state and local agencies, in addition to the people using the spaces themselves.
Yes, it's gotten more crowded but I think it seems worse because there is no improved infrastructure to support the additional warm bodies arriving. What truly worries me is that the Front Range is a dry, high desert. We've been lucky the snowpack has been pretty decent in the past few years; when the next drought hits and all of these people are water rationed, well then what? It has happened in the past and it will happen again.
It is tough to find homes in the lower six figures, competition is really keen... we don't call Broomfield by that name anymore. The new name for that town is "Apartment-field." It's depressing to see all the natural pockets of land that used to give welcome visual breaks between residents being scraped and built up with ugly gray boxes and lines and lines of cars everywhere. We live on an acreage that is tucked away in a very desirable location. It is is largely unaffected by what's going on around us fortunately. Have to wonder what it will bring when it goes on the market in the coming year? All the people flooding here will give us an advantage as sellers for sure. Who can complain about that?
Backcountry opportunities abound, but you'll have to fight heavy traffic (worst on weekends) to get into it (talking I-70) and once you reach a trailhead you may not have a place to park your car. Then there are hordes that don't respect the established paths and will braid the trails to avoid the mud. Or some even go looking for mud to drive on apparently. We were hiking off the top of Jones Pass last July when the runoff was still coming down pretty good. Some idiot had driven a vehicle through the wet tundra and willows above Butler Gulch. On our way back down the pass road (on the Henderson side), we could see where the tracks originated from, an abandoned campsite with Budweiser cans all over. They wrecked the pristine meadows full of wildflowers, ruts everywhere. When the snow comes off this year, those ruts will still be there, no doubt. Or, mountain bikers using trails within designated wilderness area boundaries in the national forests seems to have become a "thing." So not cool.
Chiming in as I too have lived in this state all my lifetime, family here before me as well. A few observations and responses to OP's original post in regard to the Front Range area and parts close by...
Let me start by saying I don't disrespect anyone that chooses to come here to live, everyone has a right to move/live where ever they would like. What I don't like is that the growth doesn't seem to be wwell-planned or responsible, both the fault of state and local agencies, in addition to the people using the spaces themselves.
Yes, it's gotten more crowded but I think it seems worse because there is no improved infrastructure to support the additional warm bodies arriving. What truly worries me is that the Front Range is a dry, high desert. We've been lucky the snowpack has been pretty decent in the past few years; when the next drought hits and all of these people are water rationed, well then what? It has happened in the past and it will happen again.
It is tough to find homes in the lower six figures, competition is really keen... we don't call Broomfield by that name anymore. The new name for that town is "Apartment-field." It's depressing to see all the natural pockets of land that used to give welcome visual breaks between residents being scraped and built up with ugly gray boxes and lines and lines of cars everywhere. We live on an acreage that is tucked away in a very desirable location. It is is largely unaffected by what's going on around us fortunately. Have to wonder what it will bring when it goes on the market in the coming year? All the people flooding here will give us an advantage as sellers for sure. Who can complain about that?
Backcountry opportunities abound, but you'll have to fight heavy traffic (worst on weekends) to get into it (talking I-70) and once you reach a trailhead you may not have a place to park your car. Then there are hordes that don't respect the established paths and will braid the trails to avoid the mud. Or some even go looking for mud to drive on apparently. We were hiking off the top of Jones Pass last July when the runoff was still coming down pretty good. Some idiot had driven a vehicle through the wet tundra and willows above Butler Gulch. On our way back down the pass road (on the Henderson side), we could see where the tracks originated from, an abandoned campsite with Budweiser cans all over. They wrecked the pristine meadows full of wildflowers, ruts everywhere. When the snow comes off this year, those ruts will still be there, no doubt. Or, mountain bikers using trails within designated wilderness area boundaries in the national forests seems to have become a "thing." So not cool.
How do you define "well-planned", and "responsible"? Are you suggesting some sort of quota system for allowing people to move here?
Re: your last para-do you have some evidence that "transplants" did the damage?
How can anyone say that there has not been any improved infrastructure with a straight face???
T-Rex, Light rail, commuter rail, additional lanes on highways, bus rapid transit, I-70 is about to get blown up and rebuilt, etc....
You may not feel like it's enough, and you may be right about that, but this problem is hardly being neglected.
I agree that there are lots of idiots with snowmobiles at Butler Gulch. Apparently they come back without their snowmobiles in the spring.
OMG SkyDog, it isn't a straight face, it's a disgusted face.
I have to travel all over the place to work contracts so I see/drive in all of it. The trains are full going into downtown in morning and still the traffic on the highway is nuts coming up out of the south and the opposite is true at end of day too. I-70 ski traffic has evolved into ridiculous traffic jams now on summer mornings on the weekends and opposite coming back down the hill... used to just be the ski traffic... and that has been true since the 70s. Same goes for 40 over Berthoud. Turnpike westbound in the morning, east at end of day. Yeah, they added a lane that costs $4.25 to drive on, peak time, one-way to downtown from Federal... so for $8.50 per day you can take advantage of it. Not everyone can afford to pay $170 per month to Plenary. They call them Lexus lanes for a reason. It takes almost 15 minutes to go from RMMA's east exit north into old Broomfield and they just improved one bridge. Southbound seems to be better. DOT just widened 225 and still not enough, it still backs up from about 6th to Iliff (evening) and then from Parker to 25 (morning). T-Rex is a bloody mess in the morning commute and a mess for the evening commute. Takes me at least an hour and 20 mins. to go from Belleview to the Wads exit on 36 when I have to work down there. When I have to wait for the third Flatiron Flyer bus at Broomfield to get on to go to Union Station and that's even before getting on the E train, that's a problem. Don't get me started on 270... ugh.
They build the stuff true... but they aren't keeping up with the influx, they aren't looking far enough ahead. The growth planning is just not smart at all. And it's not just the roads... the water supply is a big one. You've lived here, you know that water has been limited and it will happen again only this time there are a whole lot more people competing for the same resources.
I am not holding out for whatever better improvement to 70 maybe-might happen, though I agree it needs it for sure. The plans I saw made me wonder what is going to happen to all that traffic in the meanwhile.
Yeah, made us absolutely sick when we saw those tire tracks up there. People need to do a better job of protecting what they have or else they will lose it.
I agree. I feel the region is thinking too small and turning a blind eye to the amount of growth the future will hold. I think Denver proper should be building and planning for another 500,000 residents in the next 30 to 40 years rather than the 250,000 the current zoning is expecting in that timeframe. This would entail much greater density than we can get from the squat boxy apartment buildings being built all over the city--realistically, Denver needs an upswing in residential tower construction across the city, as do the suburbs in all directions. The broader metro area needs more aggressive density as well--building for 2 million more people is ridiculous when the reality will likely be twice that in the near future. With improved density, then, functional public transportation will be a natural outcome, as will water conservation, and greater preservation of undeveloped land on the periphery of the metro.
How do you define "well-planned", and "responsible"? Are you suggesting some sort of quota system for allowing people to move here?
Re: your last para-do you have some evidence that "transplants" did the damage?
Better long-range planning by the growing municipalities along the FR is the responsible thing to do, particularly in reference to the water supply, which is limited. Chatfield is about to be expanded, imagine the other reservoirs will be following suit which will be necessary... but even then it takes a solid snowpack to fill those lakes. And the Colorado River Compact directs a big portion of that water to go downstream for California to grow food and generate hydro power. Lake Mead is still catching up.When we have dry winters again, which we will... will be interesting to see how it all plays out. Wolford was the last of the Denver Water Supply to be built... I think... doubting we will see much more of those being built.
I don't think a quota would ever be instituted, nor could it ever be. Could you imagine something like that? The uproar? No way. There will be a saturation point eventually, probably some sort of economic change will be the cause and people will leave and the growth will at least be slowed down. I think that's what it's going to take.
No way to know the background of the person/people that did the damage (sadly) and I didn't suggest it was done by a transplant. I wrote that there are too many people accessing the backcountry and stressing the fragile alpine landscape... unfortunately some are overtly disrespecting the land. The more people you have in a particular space, the more likely bad things are going to happen in that space just based on stupid things humans do.
Last edited by twowilldo; 04-03-2017 at 11:13 AM..
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