9News; I love you Colorado, but.... (Denver, Pueblo: rental, buy, standard of living)

[Gorges]

Originally Posted by MN_Ski

I was just trying to point out that you can't compare DC proper to Denver metro. Which we can both come to a pretty good conclusion that both cities have homes floating around the half million dollar mark in city proper. Obviously homes will seem cheaper here if you look to the suburbs. According to data, DC suburbs are cheaper than Denver suburbs. DC also has a 25-30% higher median salary.
..........................

I moved here from a very typical DC suburb and a comparable house there today is still approximately $100k more than what it would be here in the Denver south metro suburbs. This being a desirable area with good schools where housing is in demand.

[Phil P]

In my experience, there's a sweet spot where Denver is still a pretty good deal so long as:

1. You have a decent paying job ($50000-120000). If you make less, it becomes increasingly hard to cover the basics. If you make more, a bigger city may have better opportunities for upward mobility (should you want that). Denver's economy seems to be pretty good for jobs in that range though.

2. Don't want a SFH and are renting a smaller apartment. This implies not having a family either as a smaller apartment close to downtown probably isn't the best place to raise kids. The SFH market is just stupid if you are a buyer while the rent market still seems decent, and could possibly improve as under construction projects finish.

Right now I'm in that sweet spot, so I've been able to enjoy what Denver has while not getting slammed with the negatives.

Step outside of these and that's where the big costs and drawbacks hit. I can definitely see where Iowa would look much more attractive when you have a family.

Also, I think for me not having student loans or a car payment is much more important to my bottom line at this stage of life than rent payments differentials between cities.

[Indigo Cardinal]

Funnily enough, this came up again tonight on a town hall via phone that Congressman Mike Coffman had tonight. A woman was asking in general about the housing market, pointing out the prices were insane (I do agree here) and saying that young people starting out had no choice but to either get roommates or leave Colorado.

And I found myself thinking...."And either of those is the end of the world?"

I guess I'm not seeing the 'tragedy' here. A lot of people, throughout the generations, have moved out of their parents' homes and moved into an apartment with a roommate or two. This is not exactly a new thing. And while moving away from your family can be rougher, it also doesn't strike me as a tragedy--people have been doing that forever as well, for various reasons.

It bites if you don't *like* sharing space, but it's not the end of the world. Maybe I'm not wired to be sympathetic--I joined the Army at 18 (so definitely moved away from my family at a young age), and while at Fort Hood, had to share a 250 square foot room with two other women (I was there just as units were coming back from Desert Storm, so there was an overcrowding issue.)

I definitely agree housing has gotten crazy here. The 700 square foot apartment I rented when I first moved here 20 years ago cost me about $650 a month. Nowadays it'd be about $1300 a month. Having to pull up stakes and move because you're priced out bites, big time....but it's happened before and in other places, and will happen again in other places. And to suggest that two twenty-three year-olds just absolutely *can't* share an apartment for awhile just strikes me as....well, entitled.

[SkyDog77]

Originally Posted by Indigo Cardinal

Funnily enough, this came up again tonight on a town hall via phone that Congressman Mike Coffman had tonight. A woman was asking in general about the housing market, pointing out the prices were insane (I do agree here) and saying that young people starting out had no choice but to either get roommates or leave Colorado.

And I found myself thinking...."And either of those is the end of the world?"

I guess I'm not seeing the 'tragedy' here. A lot of people, throughout the generations, have moved out of their parents' homes and moved into an apartment with a roommate or two. This is not exactly a new thing. And while moving away from your family can be rougher, it also doesn't strike me as a tragedy--people have been doing that forever as well, for various reasons.

It bites if you don't *like* sharing space, but it's not the end of the world. Maybe I'm not wired to be sympathetic--I joined the Army at 18 (so definitely moved away from my family at a young age), and while at Fort Hood, had to share a 250 square foot room with two other women (I was there just as units were coming back from Desert Storm, so there was an overcrowding issue.)

I definitely agree housing has gotten crazy here. The 700 square foot apartment I rented when I first moved here 20 years ago cost me about $650 a month. Nowadays it'd be about $1300 a month. Having to pull up stakes and move because you're priced out bites, big time....but it's happened before and in other places, and will happen again in other places. And to suggest that two twenty-three year-olds just absolutely *can't* share an apartment for awhile just strikes me as....well, entitled.

That $650 with inflation is close to $1000, or to look at it another way, today's price is the equivalent of that apartment being $850 20 years ago.

[Indigo Cardinal]

Originally Posted by SkyDog77

That $650 with inflation is close to $1000, or to look at it another way, today's price is the equivalent of that apartment being $850 20 years ago.

Well, I actually looked up the apartment complex in question. Inflation might say $1000, but they're definitely charging about $1300 for it.

[TCHP]

Inflation plus "market adjustment".

I had roommates when I first moved out. Kinda figured it was a necessity if I didn't want the majority of my money going to housing and that was way back in the '80s. I can't see that as a big change now and needing 1-2 roommates shouldn't seem like a big deal to 20 somethings not looking to start a family.

[SkyDog77]

Originally Posted by Indigo Cardinal

Well, I actually looked up the apartment complex in question. Inflation might say $1000, but they're definitely charging about $1300 for it.

I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying they are charging. Just showing what a straight inflation adjustment would have been.

[Indigo Cardinal]

Originally Posted by SkyDog77

I'm not disagreeing with what you are saying they are charging. Just showing what a straight inflation adjustment would have been.

Okay, gotcha.

[emm74]

I agree about not wanting to share an apartment being a bit entitled. I started my adult life in Boston and literally did not know a single peer who didn't have roommates, except for the ones who couldn't even afford that and lived as au pairs or similar live in help in exchange for room and board. It was just understood that it was too expensive to live there any other way.

It still seems to come back to the idea that people think that Denver shouldn't be that expensive, instead of accepting the reality that it now is that expensive to live here.

[Thom Hanks]

Originally Posted by TCHP

Inflation plus "market adjustment".

I had roommates when I first moved out. Kinda figured it was a necessity if I didn't want the majority of my money going to housing and that was way back in the '80s. I can't see that as a big change now and needing 1-2 roommates shouldn't seem like a big deal to 20 somethings not looking to start a family.

Originally Posted by emm74

I agree about not wanting to share an apartment being a bit entitled. I started my adult life in Boston and literally did not know a single peer who didn't have roommates, except for the ones who couldn't even afford that and lived as au pairs or similar live in help in exchange for room and board. It was just understood that it was too expensive to live there any other way.

It still seems to come back to the idea that people think that Denver shouldn't be that expensive, instead of accepting the reality that it now is that expensive to live here.

I personally don't mind roommates. My girlfriend moved in with me nearly eight months ago, and we still haven't booted my roommate who lived with me since I bought the place. He's an older gay dude I've known since I moved out here a decade ago, who's tidy, and keeps to himself most evenings. And on the weekends, we typically all hang out together anyway. It keeps all of our costs down, and it provides a little company. My girlfriend and I often joke about how we should adopt him and move him with us when we decide to upgrade. Perhaps when we get married, we'll feel differently about having our own place.

That said, I fully understand how it can be difficult for people that aren't very sociable, and those who've lived here most of their lives who are being priced out of living solo, or ultimately living here in Denver Metro. Obviously, that would frustrating to cope with for most anybody.